#1

Question on major scale and the 6th relative

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:03 pm
by acosta_rodrigo • 13 Posts

Hi, I have a question and I have been trying to find an answer with no success yet.
I know the CAGED 5 position system and I'm starting with the natural minor scale.

I have read that for every major scale you have the relative minor scale on the 6th degree (I can explain it better in spanish :-))
Shouldn't the positions on the guitar in the minor scale be the same as the major scale but moved over the freats? If I look in the "5 Position (CAGED) System - LARGE" pdf file, they are not the same.

hope this is not a too stupid questions...

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#2

RE: Question on major scale and the 6th relative

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:01 am
by deltadiscos • 310 Posts

You have been playing the natural minor all the time. just play A to A in C major scale and you have A natural natural minor.
I think i'm right in saying Pebber has some of his own shapes he has changed to suit him!! ok mate!

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#3

RE: Question on major scale and the 6th relative

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:36 pm
by pebberbrown • 876 Posts

G Major = G A B C D E F# G A B C D E F# G

E minor = E F# G A B C D E F# G A B C D E

Eminor is the RELATIVE minor of G Major.

G Major is the RELATIVE MAJOR of E minor.

If a song is in E minor you can play all the G major shapes all day long.

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#4

RE: Question on major scale and the 6th relative

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:10 am
by ferretwraith • 14 Posts

Are you talking about this page?

http://pbguitarstudio.com/pdf_files/GUIT...le%20System.pdf

If you play the major scale with the position 1 pattern from that sheet, starting with the circled 1 on G, you will be playing G major. If you do not shift that position AT ALL, you could also say you are playing in E minor, in which case the scale would be starting from the number 6.

The minor pattern down lower on the page is the shape that you would use if you kept your starting note in the same spot and wanted to play in G minor. Moving the whole first shape to start on E would have you playing in E major.

http://pbguitarstudio.com/pdf_files/GUIT...system_mod3.pdf Shows all of the notes in both G major and E minor.



If you already knew all that, and there is just some sort of translation issue, my guess would be that you do not understand the purpose of the position systems. The positions are intended to teach your mind, ears, and hands to be comfortable playing the scales up and down the neck, regardless of where your hand is located.

They do not define the notes of the scale. You could add new patterns with some dramatic slides and call it a 17 position system if you so desired. You should never avoid hitting a note you want to hear because "it's not in the position" you are playing in.

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#5

RE: Question on major scale and the 6th relative

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:56 am
by deltadiscos • 310 Posts

Nice explanation there. yes so al those scale shapes on the first sheet http://pbguitarstudio.com/pdf_files/GUIT...le%20System.pdf
Are the E form/ position of the cagEd system..

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#6

RE: Question on major scale and the 6th relative

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:30 pm
by Tsonic Tsunami • 27 Posts

Thanks for linking up the above document. Just going over the harmonic minor in the 1st position, what a great sounding scale. I imagine this has been used in a ton of recordings by many guitarists. Sounds so good :-)

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#7

RE: Question on major scale and the 6th relative

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue May 22, 2012 6:27 am
by John567 • 156 Posts

Hey acosta_rodrigo,

I'm fairly new to the forums and have only followed Pebber's stuff for a short time. Pebber uses a lot of different fingering solutions. I use one system based directly on the roman numeral analysis of the major scale. I had a guitar teacher out of Toronto show me it in my first year college class (his name is Rob Bulger). Here's the "Aeolian" Position in C Major (which would be the 6th degree of the major scale and called "A Aeolian"):

A Aeolian.jpg - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)

This would be the aeolian position or the 6th position. You can see the position starts on the "A" on the 6th string. There are positions for each of the 7 modes. They all have generic left hand fingerings and arpeggios that go with them. I like them because they are quite simple. You think of a mode and a position pops up right away. Overtime, I was able to see the modes regardless of what finger position I was in.

Now that I have Pebber's DVD on right hand picking techniques, I've incorporated it into my daily practice routine with these fingerings. I wish I had Pebber's picking insights years ago. I feel like I'm starting all over again. Anyway, I hope this helps.

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#8

RE: Question on major scale and the 6th relative

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue May 22, 2012 6:32 pm
by uderoche (deleted)
avatar

If the chord you are playing over is A minor and you wanted to use A Aeolian mode, you can still use a C major pattern. The modes shift the whole step/half step pattern around. Everything is based upon the W W H W(tie) W W H major scale (Ionian Mode). Everything is a rearranging or modifying of this whole step/half step relationship.

C major and A Aeolian have the exact same notes. C major and D Dorian have the exact same notes. C major and E Phrygian have the exact same notes. But, it's the change in the whole step/half step relationship that changes the "tonal gravity" of the scale.

In other words, if the chord is A minor, use a C major fingering but change your thinking from "C MAJOR SOUNDS" to "A MINOR SOUNDS."

To do this properly, you have to experiment with these sounds over the chords they generally are attached to. (Pebber's backing tracks come in very handy for this.) Now, the gravity PULLS towards A. The W/H pattern has changed. The phrases must change to adapt to this new harmonic push and pull but the notes are the same.

When Pebber teaches you the position systems, you ARE learning the modes as well. Because it's the same thing. But, depending on the chord you are playing over, you have to change your thought of the SOUND.

C Major/A Aeolian. Same notes, but different W/H relationship results in new tonal gravity over chord.

Hope this helps.


-Ursin

Last edited Tue May 22, 2012 6:39 pm | Scroll up

#9

RE: Question on major scale and the 6th relative

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed May 23, 2012 1:58 am
by deltadiscos • 310 Posts

Nice explanation I like to Practice modes from one root / Pitch axis I think you call it.. that way you can really hear the sound of it, singing along always helps. one of the best things i've learnt from here. that and sub-division picking..

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