#1

Module 7: Tunes and Repertoire

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:09 am
by student • 146 Posts

I bought the Real Book 6th edition. I will use it for this section of Module 7, "Study & Learn Jazz Fake Book Tunes".

The song I am studying is "Sirabhorn" by Pat Metheny.

So I have 3 questions(I am sure I will have a million more once I get going):
1) Should I learn the melody first then the harmony ?
2) After learning both, should I start combining the two into combinations that sound good to me ?
3) Does anyone else have anything I should be focusing on while working on this song ?

This is the first song that I have studied. In the past any songwork I have done was just tab(haven't worked on a song in over a year, once I came to this sight I have been primarily focused in the first 3 modules).


Last edited Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:17 am | Scroll up

#2

RE: Module 7: Tunes and Repertoire

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:29 pm
by student • 146 Posts

EDIT Above Post:

I just saw that Pebber does a lesson on Blue in Green and also has a link to the backing track for this song. It is in the Real Book as well. No need to reply to my first post, I am going to be studying this song instead.
Lesson
backing track


Last edited Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:31 pm | Scroll up

#3

RE: Module 7: Tunes and Repertoire

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:37 pm
by student • 146 Posts

I shifted gears, went from BLue in Green to Giant Steps. I just couldn't get into Blue in Green, who knows maybe my ears will come around to it. Anyway here is a vid that goes out to John he had shared a vid with on Giant Steps.
This vid covers my chord voicings, I have ALOT of work ahead of me....but I enjoy the process. The chords I chose I kept basic because I really wanted to develop my speed and timing with chord progressions. I don't do as much chord work as I should.


Don't listen to me

Last edited Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:38 pm | Scroll up

#4

RE: Module 7: Tunes and Repertoire

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:14 pm
by uderoche (deleted)
avatar

I dig the finger plucking chord comping technique. Guthrie Govan definitely didn't come up with that. I started doing it in the late 80's when I was taking lessons from this fusion guy who was really into Holdsworth. I don't know if Holdsworth came up with it, I'm sure jazz and classical guitarists have been doing it for a long time, but Holdsworth was the first pro guy I ever saw do it. Sounds really cool. Piano like due to the fact that you can hit all the notes at once. It's my preferred comping technique. Still to this day my comping with the pick is not as good because of this!! Unless I have to do some big band chunk chunk chunk chunk type comping then I will use the pick or my right hand thumb.


YouTube www.youtube.com/ursinderoche
Facebook www.facebook.com/ursinderoche
Twitter @ursinderoche

Last edited Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:17 pm | Scroll up

#5

RE: Module 7: Tunes and Repertoire

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:58 pm
by JoelMedina • 72 Posts

I'll be lurking this thread like a hawk. It's really inspiring to see you go through this tune, I'm certain the end product will be well worth it too. Hopefully we can meet each other in the end but I feel I don't have a firm grasp on simpler jazz standards yet. I am rooting for you dude!

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#6

RE: Module 7: Tunes and Repertoire

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:42 am
by student • 146 Posts

Ursin, thanks for the history on this. Very cool to hear that you also prefer this technique. Why am I not surprised Mr.Holdsworth is all over this

Joel, I have seen some of your vids. I think you can easily pick up a jazz standard. The cool thing about them is you just get sheet music, it is up to you to build your own chords. I think the most important thing is to make sure it is something that you really enjoy listening to. Also here is the first video of the Giant Steps series I was referring to. Without it I would have never attempted


Don't listen to me
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#7

RE: Module 7: Tunes and Repertoire

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:00 pm
by student • 146 Posts

Here are 2 passes of the melody of Giant Steps(4 times through the sheet music), while Giant Steps is playing in the background. There is a cool website (infinitelooper.com) that allows you to control the loopback of youtube videos
I also need to figure out better audio options for recording, I use a Logitech C920. Some of those highs are abrasive.


Last edited Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:08 pm | Scroll up

#8

RE: Module 7: Tunes and Repertoire

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:04 am
by uderoche (deleted)
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Tech looks good. Something else you can do to tame the highs is throw the guitar on the neck pickup and roll the tone knob down considerably...or off completely. That's an old trick to get more of a jazz type tone. A splash of chorus also helps.

My feedback to you would be that the notes you are playing and the technique look good but, here's the problem. I see this all the time day in and day out in bars, on youtube, in my own classes I teach. People can play things but they can't convert it into FEELING like something...if this makes sense.

When I listen to Giant Steps, or any music, and when I say listen I mean REALLY LISTEN. This is something people SUCK at. Nobody LISTENS to shit anymore. They quickly take in and then toss it away but they don't ABSORB it. \

When I hear the tune, which I was first exposed to in probably my mid to late teens and I have an extreme fascination with Coltrane especially "A Love Supreme"...when I hear the tune it's got a bounce to it. It's lively. It's happy. It's bopping along pretty quickly but it does have a definite bop movement to it. And, while the theory behind the tune may be intellectual, the music produced is very soulful. Almost like it has an old school Rhythm and Blues type aura surrounding it.

Coltrane was a spiritual dude. He was into a lot of Eastern spiritual stuff similar to McLaughlin. That stuff is in there. In a good way. In a happy way. Almost as if, Coltrane had written this tune and was discovering new music. And he was very pleased with himself. He knew he was killing it! He was taking Giant Steps! In his life and in his music. I mean, it shows. You can hear it. The playing is upbeat. It has a spring in it's step. A sort of joy. A wonderment. It's excited. Like, when Coltrane starts that solo it's as if he is saying, "Man!!!! Listen to this!!!!" He's telling a story and he's very excited to be telling you this story! He's happy about it and he wants you to be happy about it with him.

That's what I get. Nothing I ever read in a book. Just what I get when I hear the tune. My thoughts are subjective.

Anyway, you gotta tap into THAT. It's gotta FLOW more.

Music can be anything you want it to be but your greatest successes will come when you can take a feeling and project that outward with the guitar.

And, just to go further, nobody is gonna pay to see a dude run scales and exercises. A very small percentage. Keep your day job! People WILL pay to see a guy speak to them in an emotional way with the guitar to the point where they feel what he feels. How many people can do that? I don't see many people on youtube doing THAT! I see a lot of people playing really fast Yngwie licks and Flight of The Bumblebee and going on about how great THEIR crappy technique is and trying to astound you with their command of the English language and how they know so much theory. Yeah right. That leads nowhere.

If you wanna get somewhere, work on speaking with the guitar. Translating emotion. That's what the scales and chords are! Tools to translate ideas, feelings, emotions to an audience.

Could go on, sorry for the rant.

The notes are correct. Tech looks good. Gotta put the soul into it.


YouTube www.youtube.com/ursinderoche
Facebook www.facebook.com/ursinderoche
Twitter @ursinderoche

Last edited Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:42 am | Scroll up

#9

RE: Module 7: Tunes and Repertoire

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:56 am
by student • 146 Posts

Ursin, I can't thank you enough for that post. One hell of a post. When I am in the car and I hum along to Giant Steps it has a good feel to it. You are correct, I do feel disconnected from the song, but am hoping that will eventually come around. Need to get my humming translated to the guitar.

I was at a Tommy Emmanuel concert recently and he paused for about 5 minutes to talk to the crowd.
"You want to play like me, you have to practice. Then you have to practice more. You have to practice so much that your movement becomes automatic. What is after that ? FEEL! The only thing I think about when I play is FEEL"

Again, thanks for the post. I am going to really try and think about your post every time I touch the guitar. Another good reminder of slowing the fuck down

Lastly, I think reading Coltranes biography is also in order for me. I have read Miles Davis' autobiography and dug that shit. I think it brought me closer to his music.


Don't listen to me

Last edited Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:59 am | Scroll up

#10

RE: Module 7: Tunes and Repertoire

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:13 pm
by John567 • 156 Posts

Quote: uderoche wrote in post #8


And, just to go further, nobody is gonna pay to see a dude run scales and exercises. A very small percentage. Keep your day job! People WILL pay to see a guy speak to them in an emotional way with the guitar to the point where they feel what he feels. How many people can do that? I don't see many people on youtube doing THAT! I see a lot of people playing really fast Yngwie licks and Flight of The Bumblebee and going on about how great THEIR crappy technique is and trying to astound you with their command of the English language and how they know so much theory. Yeah right. That leads nowhere.



I agree 100%. uderoche's rants are gold.

:D


... addicted to Dava... I don't know how to quit.
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#11

RE: Module 7: Tunes and Repertoire

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:02 am
by pebberbrown • 867 Posts

Amen Brother!

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#12

RE: Module 7: Tunes and Repertoire

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:39 pm
by John567 • 156 Posts

Hey student,

"Quick study" Method Trick:

I like the vid. You got the right idea and to add to that, here's what you can try out:

1. Learn the chords of the song. Memorize them and record two or three choruses. I have a pedal looper so I can get away with just one chorus.

2. Use that backing track to practice the head (the melody) of the tune so it becomes automatic and you don't have to think about it.

3. Try playing over the changes and come up with some licks.

So ideally, what you could shoot for is to be able to play the melody, solo, and play the melody out. This is a pretty good way to internalize a song in general. I've been doing this for a while and it really helps me get tunes ready. I'll record my self with the backing track (just myself comping) doing just this. I wait a bit then listen to it to see where my mistakes are and how I can improve myself.

Remember, keep it simple. I remember when I just used a tape recorder from radio shack! I used to record about five minutes of comping. I thought my hands were gonna fall off at first.

Overtime, this method has worked the best for me. It's like I'm putting myself under the microscope and seeing what I like and what I don't like. Now I do it in video.

Depending on the song and how difficult it is, I can spend plenty of time just to get the changes down. If you want a sample of what I mean just let me know.

:D


... addicted to Dava... I don't know how to quit.
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#13

RE: Module 7: Tunes and Repertoire

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:34 pm
by student • 146 Posts

Here is a vid of the melody of Giant Steps in 3 different positions. Still have a long road ahead of me, but it is fun. I am working on the harmony along with learning some soloing, both of which are to premature to even post. I am getting close to playing the harmony at full speed and once I do I will post no matter how shitty, just so a baseline is out there. The melody still needs more feel to it. My new Takamine P1NC( just love the cutaway )

My practice routine is 1.5 hours a day(I will have more free time starting in February, so I am looking to try and extend my routine to 2 to 2.5 hours a day...will have to see how that works)

10min of trilling
10min of picking
10 min of chromatic
5 min of Shawn Lane Lick

Then the rest is Giant Steps


Don't listen to me

Last edited Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:52 pm | Scroll up


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