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#26

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:37 am
by dlraben • 278 Posts

Somebody ship me a drummer, bassist and singer to the old fart part of South Florida so I can turn off my attenuator and let my tube amp burn the ears of everyone within a mile. Oh, and make sure they are parents with (day job) careers too so I don't have to constantly make excuses for not being available more than one or two nights a week.

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#27

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:25 am
by deltadiscos • 312 Posts

Yes agree about the holdworth legato i find myself trying it often.

Here's a little legato throwing my hat in the ring.. no muting at all (prickly subject lol.)
just left hand then start picking See if you can tell where ?.


You think you practice enough.......YOU DON'T!............PRACTICE MORE! Darryn U.K

Last edited Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:27 am | Scroll up

#28

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:32 pm
by Cliff • 344 Posts

Sounds good to me!

Are you using hammer-ons to change strings too?

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#29

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:29 pm
by Cliff • 344 Posts

Seeing that Total Guitar vid takes me back - I used to share an office with the editorial team back in the 90s. Never got to meet anyone famous, though.

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#30

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:27 am
by deltadiscos • 312 Posts

yep cliff hammers from nowhere until i start picking around 38 sec I Think you should be able to play most things just left handed then introducing the pick is no problem,


You think you practice enough.......YOU DON'T!............PRACTICE MORE! Darryn U.K
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#31

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:17 am
by Cliff • 344 Posts

Hmm. I can do that with my pinky, but it seems a bit more challenging with the first finger.

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#32

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:40 am
by deltadiscos • 312 Posts

Yes a lot of trouble there comes from supporting the guitar with the left hand. The guitar should sit unsupported that's what the straps for or the LEFT Knee.

Wrong Technique I know but i often play without the thumb support on the back of the neck so i know i aint relying on it to much (Seen Pebber do this in a few vids too.)


You think you practice enough.......YOU DON'T!............PRACTICE MORE! Darryn U.K
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#33

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:47 pm
by Cliff • 344 Posts

Yep, I realized a few months ago that supporting the guitar (mostly left, but some with the right hand or arm) was a problem. One of the reason's I got the Death Warrior :).

I play without the thumb too sometimes, just to check my touch is nice and light. However, I've noticed that I seem to rely on the thumb for leverage when I'm doing pull-offs. Do you find this, or would you consider it bad technique? I can see how it might slow down position shifts.

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#34

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:07 am
by deltadiscos • 312 Posts

I cant give you an expert answer if its a bad technique or not Cliff. but no i dont find i press any harder with the thumb for pull-offs.. I have practiced a lot unplugged so really need to hammer down those fingers to get any sound and the acoustic helps too.
But again video self analysis is great. just picked up on my pinky flying around in that video will have to keep an eye on that now!!


You think you practice enough.......YOU DON'T!............PRACTICE MORE! Darryn U.K
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#35

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:51 pm
by Cliff • 344 Posts

Here's another attempt at a legato scale:



Listening back, it seems to me I need to hold longer the last note of each triplet (the last note on a string) as I'm pulling off. At the moment there seems like a yawning gap there. Also, I could be wrong, but it seems like the entire triplet set is a little 'hurried' on the descent. I'd appreciate criticism and advice.

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#36

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:23 pm
by student • 146 Posts

When pulling off on any strings other than the high e, do you find your fingers resting against the other strings ?
I have been working these lately and noticed to get a decent sound my fingers end up resting against the other strings.


Don't listen to me

Last edited Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:23 pm | Scroll up

#37

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:51 am
by uderoche (deleted)
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Quote: student wrote in post #38
When pulling off on any strings other than the high e, do you find your fingers resting against the other strings ?
I have been working these lately and noticed to get a decent sound my fingers end up resting against the other strings.


Yes. Both hands should be helping you mute the strings that aren't being played.


Twitter @ursinderoche
Facebook www.facebook.com/UrsinDeRoche
YouTube www.youtube.com/ursinderoche
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#38

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:55 am
by uderoche (deleted)
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Quote: Cliff wrote in post #37
Here's another attempt at a legato scale:

Listening back, it seems to me I need to hold longer the last note of each triplet (the last note on a string) as I'm pulling off. At the moment there seems like a yawning gap there. Also, I could be wrong, but it seems like the entire triplet set is a little 'hurried' on the descent. I'd appreciate criticism and advice.


You got it Cliff. Now do that every day for a few hours. Yesterday I was able to put in 4 hours. 3 hours on left hand and then 1 hour on picking. Back at it this morning bright and early. Been doing this for years. 1...2...3...GO!


Twitter @ursinderoche
Facebook www.facebook.com/UrsinDeRoche
YouTube www.youtube.com/ursinderoche
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#39

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:59 am
by pebberbrown • 901 Posts

Back when I was a student at Dick Grove, I asked my guitar instructor Russ Tuttle how much I should be practicing, He had a classic answer - "Practice one hour on each string, then 6 hours on all strings."
I said "But - Russ, thats 12 hours!"
He said "Thats right."


Last edited Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:00 am | Scroll up

#40

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:53 am
by Cliff • 344 Posts

Thanks Ursin - your positive comments mean an awful lot.

Regarding the practice time, I'm normally out at work for 11-12 hours a day. After that, I need to eat and spend some time with my family. So I really am limited in what time I can put in. This isn't intended as an excuse, but simply a reality for me, which I'm sure limits how far and how quickly I can progress. Of course, I don't have any ambitions to be a pro, rather a 'competent amateur'. That said, I'd like to be able to play some of the classic tunes from the 80s which were performed by some of the best rock guitarists of the day.

Every time I make a little progress, I gain a better understanding of how much further I have to go. After listening back to these three vids I posted yesterday, I confess I felt a little depressed. Then I went back to practicing again and things didn't seem so bad :). It's almost like I delude myself into thinking I'm better than I am, in order to continue. I suspect if I truly understood how far I had to go, I'd lose the will.

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#41

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:06 pm
by uderoche (deleted)
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Steve Morse wrote a column for a long time in the (now defunct) Guitar For The Practicing Musician magazine. It was basically an "inspiration" or "advice" type column. Not about technique or theory.

Anyway, I remember one column where he said that every day you get up and play guitar. One day you think you are great. Next day you think you suck. Next day you think you're great. Next day, back to suck. He went on to say, the reality is, you sound the same from day to day. It's your brain messing with you. Your brain trying to get better.

I always remembered that for some reason.

Also, the amazing country guitar virtuoso Albert Lee once said in an interview that at most gigs he wanted to hear himself as quietly as possible through his monitor because he always felt that he sucked.

It's normal.


Twitter @ursinderoche
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Last edited Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:07 pm | Scroll up

#42

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:29 am
by Cliff • 344 Posts

Good to know.

I thought I was doing pretty well yesterday. Maybe if I skip playing today, I'll be pretty good tomorrow as well ;)

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#43

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:07 pm
by Cliff • 344 Posts

Here's my latest attempt at legato in C. Not sure if it's really any better than Monday's post, but if nothing else I'd appreciate advice on more sane delay settings :).


Last edited Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:13 pm | Scroll up

#44

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:24 pm
by uderoche (deleted)
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Delay is hard to dial in. Really can be a pain in the ass. Sounds ok here. Maybe that's for another thread.

I think you need to start working more with the metronome. This will get your speed up.


Twitter @ursinderoche
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#45

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:24 am
by Cliff • 344 Posts

I actually was using a metronome here, but it can't be heard cause the mic is right next to the amp. Just to double-check, do you mean work with the metronome because the timing sounds bad as is, or work with the metronome to get the speed right up? Thanks.

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#46

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:29 pm
by pebberbrown • 901 Posts

Cliff nice try but this legato emphasizes the picked note way too much. It sounds like DAH dil ah, DAH dil ah, DAH dil ah, DAH dil ah. The picked note must be at the exact same volume as the hammered on notes and the pulled off notes.

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#47

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:46 pm
by uderoche (deleted)
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Quote: Cliff wrote in post #47
I actually was using a metronome here, but it can't be heard cause the mic is right next to the amp. Just to double-check, do you mean work with the metronome because the timing sounds bad as is, or work with the metronome to get the speed right up? Thanks.


Well, I can't tell if the timing is bad cuz I can't hear the metronome. It has to be in time and yes, the metronome will help you get the speed up.

And, as Pebber says, all the notes must be the same volume...the picked notes, the hammered notes, and the pulled notes.


Twitter @ursinderoche
Facebook www.facebook.com/UrsinDeRoche
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Last edited Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:46 pm | Scroll up

#48

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:57 pm
by Cliff • 344 Posts

Understood. Thanks both for the advice. Man, this is considerably harder than I first realized.

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#49

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:04 pm
by pebberbrown • 901 Posts

Yeah when you find out the reality of how hard it really is - THEN go watch a bunch of Holdsworth videos - you start to really appreciate his skill!!!!!!

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#50

RE: Legato thread

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:07 am
by Cliff • 344 Posts

I've spent a little time trying to get the notes to sound at equal volume (and will obviously spend a lot more time on this). But I have a couple of questions if that's okay.

First, it seems to me that there's always going to be a difference in tone between a picked note, a pulled-off note and a hammered on note, even if they're at the same volume. I guess Holdsworth only uses hammer-ons, so he's super smooth, but how do other guitarists deal with this?

And second, to try and equalize volume I've been picking super light, then hammering on as hard as I can, and when pulling off make a very definite pluck with the finger that's coming away from the fretboard. The problem is, I'm not sure how well this is going to go when I try and increase the speed. Is this the right way to go, and it's just a question of building finger strength, or should the hammers and pulls be gentle?

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