#1

Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:08 pm
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

This was posted by Diego, one of my students. He's really smooth and fluid and excellent but wow man his picking technique is so so unusual!!!!

Its a pretty smooth technqiue he has down but I cant make ANY sense of it at all. Sort of alternate/directional? at 3:01 - 8th notes at 235 but adding 1 extra 8th note? to make it 9? But with the timing of 8? This is the weirdest thing I have ever come across... Guy any comments??????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl...d&v=8rmPRcBov08

Scroll up

#2

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:31 pm
by dlraben • 278 Posts

Yeah, I remember this video. It was honestly a bit tough for my ears to make sense of it other than me thinking it sounded pretty cool. He's the guy that is developing a sweet directional picking style and is just crushing the trill permutation exercises. I wish he'd apply all that to scales since it's gonna start sounding really sweet once it turns musical...

Plus he plays Satch guitars (I think) and has a sweet tone. I'm hoping he posts a lot more.

Scroll up

#3

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:01 pm
by John567 • 156 Posts

I keep wanting to look at his forearm but its covered in some kind of cast or cloth? So, its difficult to tell what he's doing. The distortion makes it hard for me to tell how clean it is but he definitely looks as if he's playing effortlessly, and smooth. Good Stuff. I'd like to hear it without the distortion as well. Again, good stuff!

:D

Scroll up

#4

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:59 pm
by Scottulus • 222 Posts

Crazy stuff. Just goes to show how people develop and evolve their own techniques. Everyone is different, and have an ocean of music in them waiting to be tapped... I can't wait to hear this fella do some music! Awesome!

Scroll up

#5

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:14 am
by JoelMedina • 72 Posts

Definitely directional picking going on here. The rhythm groupings are throwing me off because its a little difficult to gauge what exactly he's going for. It looks and sounds like he's having trouble switching between strings and staying on time. Regardless, that right hand looks like it has some serious potential.


Last edited Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:18 am | Scroll up

#6

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:26 am
by Tom (deleted)
avatar

Well, I registered here a while ago but here's to a first post. Picking is very, very difficult to figure out. You find what works for you, and maybe you run with it. I would do a lot of scalpel picking, and then I'd do a lot of alternate picking. I couldn't/can't figure out which picking is right for me, so I decided the hell with it, I'll do them all and see what happens in time. What I've found so far when playing instead of simply practicing is it's turned into some kind of hybrid between scalpel picking and alternate picking, or call it a more efficient alternate (because it looks like wrist movement either way I do it) picking because I'd built up more control in my thumb and the motion was able to start with the thumb launching it off. I was quite surprised at it myself, since I'd expected to be do what I'd practiced, and not end up with a combination of all I've practiced. Maybe Diego practices these things separately and maybe he found a combination that works great for him. If so, good for him. Finding the picking technique that works for you is a pain in the ... I hate people that pick up a guitar and a pick and it comes easy to them. ;-)

Scroll up

#7

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:42 am
by Scottulus • 222 Posts

If it was easy, it wouldn't be worthwhile. While picking may come easy, I'm sure the lad has other challenges. Picking technique is merely one aspect of a rather huge pool to draw from in regards to creating, or performing music.

Tom, I have spent many, many years working on picking technique, and I will admit that it has been a lot of work. Pebber's concepts appeal to me for a few reasons;efficient and ergonomic body movement. Tangible technique that he explains very clearly. Results. The man can play as fast as he wants, and if he was interested in the Olympic speed picking events he could probably play faster, lol.

The first day I discovered scalpel, I knew there was going to be a few challenges, grip being the biggest. I hold the thing away too tight, and use my whole arm when I pick. Plus, as a side effect of this, I use too much of the pick. Day one was tremolo picking using scalpel on each string with a metronome, trying to stay relaxed. Single string ideas, then string crossing ideas, then full scalar ideas. Most important, learn a solo you like and use the technique in that to help make it natural for you to play that way.

Pebber has stated a few times in his vids "spend a month with it..." In regards to various concepts he is explaining. Commit hardcore for a month, absolutely focus in on forcing yourself to Bly do things one way, and I bet you see results after a month. Results enough to help get to the next level, anyways!

I am gonna watch this vid a few more times...

Scroll up

#8

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:21 am
by Scottulus • 222 Posts

Yeah. Upon listening and watching a few times, here is what is at work. My theory anyways. Definitely all downstrokes, and scary fast at it, but the rhythmic aspect is what is strange. He is accenting the first and last note of his groupings, and then inserting a small rest. He seems to be picking in small circles, which is probably necessary to 'reset' the next pick stroke. Lol this is also somewhat inconsistent, which tells the teacher in me to find out if this timing thing means he inserts rests and accents like this into all of his playing, rhythm and lead, or is this just what happens when he is playing fast? Could be a physical adaptation to frustration over not being able to break the speed barrier, you know a case of... "Hmmmmn this way seems to work, I dunno if its right, but it IS faster..."

I would say that it has huge potential, and is reminiscent of how drummers practice odd note groupings WITHIN a set meter. Grouping of 9 for example within straight 16ths. Basically accent every 9th note, but keep it straight.

1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4-1-2-3-4- etc.
add a rest to this, and it makes for some strangeness indeed, although I suspect the 9 group sounds funny and feels wierd to him, so he is probably subconsciously using the rest to 'reset' back to beat one, as it is a way to resolve the tension, both sonically and physically. I mean, if he keeps going with the sequence of nine with the accent, he will be off by a 16th every time he goes through it, taking a full nine cycles to get back to beat one. Far from a natural feel, our music culture has ingrained 4 into our psyche...

Another thing, a downstroke is a natural accent stroke. If you are playing with all downstrokes, then it is going to maybe take a bit of dissection to get it under control. Maybe forced practice of steady 8th notes with a moving accent is what the doctor ordered.

Playing along with a recording is usually what forces the truth. The student will either adapt the riff or lick to accommodate their playing style, or the opposite. If they adapt the riff, then they will not be able to play along with the recording.

Either way, if this fella can harness this, he has a pretty powerful tool in his kit! Thanks for posting this video, and thanks for reading my theory, maybe it helps quantify it, and maybe it's dead wrong. Lol just an option. The lad definitely has a smooth attack, and is pretty darn quick playing!

Scroll up

#9

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:21 pm
by Scottulus • 222 Posts

Yes no rest. Here is what's at work; you are playing groupings of nine with no accent. it is mostly on the beat, just took a few listens to wrap my mind around it. Make the same video, do the exact same thing and add an accent and even your open strings will groove. Your wife just isnt hearing the 9 is all. Haha fun post.

Scroll up

#10

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:31 pm
by Scottulus • 222 Posts

But if you ARE only trying to play consistent 8th notes, then yes you are offbeat, particularly when you change strings.
Try counting with your picking," one and two and" with each word getting a pick stroke. Try and change strings on the '1' and it will make a lot more sense. The good news is that whatever the case, your downstrokes are awesome! Haha

Oh yeah, nice guitar!

Scroll up

#11

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:13 pm
by Tom (deleted)
avatar

Well, this post of yours kinda made me finally realize guitar IS difficult. My friend that taught me way back when was essentially a virtuoso already. This had for some reason always had me thinking it should be easier and I must be pretty darn challenged on the guitar. He's been telling me these days to "play fun stuff, melodies and what not, music is so many more things than practicing technique". I decided to do just that the rest of the month and not get annoyed when things aren't smooth, the pick snags, or sit and think about anything minor related to my technique. Just gonna let all that roll off of me the rest of this month because I guess music is supposed to be not pissing me off, lol.

Scroll up

#12

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:29 pm
by Scottulus • 222 Posts

Quote: Tom wrote in post #12
Well, this post of yours kinda made me finally realize guitar IS difficult. My friend that taught me way back when was essentially a virtuoso already. This had for some reason always had me thinking it should be easier and I must be pretty darn challenged on the guitar. He's been telling me these days to "play fun stuff, melodies and what not, music is so many more things than practicing technique". I decided to do just that the rest of the month and not get annoyed when things aren't smooth, the pick snags, or sit and think about anything minor related to my technique. Just gonna let all that roll off of me the rest of this month because I guess music is supposed to be not pissing me off, lol.



No, no... I believe the phrase is "PLAY music" . Quick, drop what you're doing and have some fun! Some of the most inspiring moments I've had as a guitarist is simply learning an easy tune, and playing it right along with the CD.
I'm really obsessed with singing/songwriting, and man is THAT ever a different thing... Anyways, sorry if I contributed in any way to the over-cerebralization of something; just keep jamming!

Maybe just work out something with dead easy, or no solos. (STP, Black Sabbath, Cream, Nirvana) hahahaha My pick is snagging, too just so you know! Just do your best, and remember to keep yourself inspired by rewarding yourself occasionally by just playing some tunes... That's really the whole point at the end of the day isn't it?

(I really love Cream's Crossroads, or Plush by STP... Fell On Black Days by Soundgarden... My Kinda Girl by Chickenfoot...)

Scroll up

#13

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:46 pm
by JoelMedina • 72 Posts

Fortunately curing the dreaded pick snag isn't too complicated to resolve. Both Guthrie Govan and Paul Gilbert teach to make sure you're only picking from the tip of the pick (pointed rigid pick recommended) and that you hold the pick at an angle (around 45 degrees.) Picking from the tip gives you more control over the pick and the angle makes it so that your pick doesn't snag.

Scroll up

#14

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:02 am
by RevHead • 3 Posts

Hi there,
Nope,you aren't doing anything wrong.It is actually fairly simple and not that uncommon what you are doing. Explaining it is more complicated.
For the most part,you are playing two notes per tick. The metronome or drum machine is clicking away with no emphasis. It could be 2/4, 3/4, 4/4 etc. When we listen to it, we try to hear a repeatable grouping. But, because there are no Rhythmic or Volume accents we take the note change when you change strings as a stressed accent.
If we put a a stress at the start of every 4 beats of the metronome, we would call it 4/4 with quarter note beats. You are playing groups of 9 eighth notes, so all that is happening is a displaced rhythm. When you start on the second string, the stressed accent is on the upbeat. The rhythm is being displaced by 1/8 note each bar.

Try accenting the start of every group of eight notes with a slightly harder attack, while still playing 9 notes per string, and you will hear a difference.

Another way of looking at this is, the metronome could be clicking eighth notes and you are playing sixteenths.
We could then say you are playing 9/8 time. This is compound time, three dotted quarter notes that break down into 9 eighth notes (3 groups of 3) . Each of those can be broken into 2 sixteenth notes. So,every eighteen notes you start a new bar, that's 9 notes on the E string and 9 notes on the A string.

Or,you could say you are playing 3/4 time. Two eighth notes per beat. You are then displacing the rhythm over 3 bars. That is, every 3 bars the pattern repeats, 3 bars of Eighth notes in 3/4 time = 18 notes, which is two groups of 9 notes on each string.

Try playing just 3 notes per string or 5 or 7. You will hear the rhythm displace because of the string note change accent.
Now try playing a 3NPS scale with the same timing.

So ,your wife is partly right, you are implying an accent on the off beat, but you can tell her you are playing a displaced rhythm or in 9/8 time. Bang a few accents in there and it will sound cool.

Another way to hear this work would be to play a repetitive 3 note phrase, say G A B on the E string. Grouped in eighth notes this would be

GA BG AB GA / BG AB GA BG / AB GA BG AB / The rhythm now repeats every 3 bars. Hear how the rhythm seems to rotate? Even though you are playing eight eighth notes per bar.

I think the whole reason you started doing this was so you could play alternate picking with an economy pick to cross strings. Starting with a down stroke,this necessitates an odd number.
Try the same approach with 3 notes per string. It will still give you the same picking pattern.

Sorry for long first post.

Scroll up

#15

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:50 am
by uderoche (deleted)
avatar

Joel makes some very solid points. All you need to use is the very tip of the pick.

Tip of the pick at an angle to the string. Sit around and pick on a single string. After a while, it won't snag anymore. Do this every day for the rest of your life.


YouTube www.youtube.com/ursinderoche

Last edited Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:56 am | Scroll up

#16

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:26 am
by Tom (deleted)
avatar

This angling of the pick I do. And I've always played the Jazz III's. However, I think I chug at the string with too much of the pick and need to get that under control. I've also found when jamming around these last few days that where I put my hand make a lot of difference to me. Putting the middle of my wrist/hand at the very center on the upper corner-edge of the bridge helps me out with getting a comfortable angle. Maybe that's the way "everyone" does it? Or maybe I've broken my hand and fingers a few too many times to find it comfortable any other way.

Scroll up

#17

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:11 pm
by diegopaudyal • 91 Posts

http://pbguitarstudio.com/pdf_files/GUIT...BUS_7-13-12.pdf

Hi all
Above is the link for the lesson pdf exercise. So I have a short video for exercises 2.50 to 2.54 here. This video is to show what exactly I was doing in the video above. Notice that I am not doing any fancy work but picking exercises from Pebber.

Pebber's exercises don't only work on Saord or Scalpel or one specific picking technique. You can employ these exercises to any picking technique. Notice that i am not doing Sarod or Scalpel here.

I am playing on 250 notes per second and 2 notes per beat. I have been using Eric Johnson Jazz III pick since last two days and i really love the tone. However i am having problem with the pick slipping off my fingers. I appreciate any comments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xMIWgdVwvg

Scroll up

#18

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:54 pm
by dlraben • 278 Posts

Diego, you clearly are able to play these different note divisions on a single string without accents. I guess when I practice these exercises though, I do them a little differently. I'll have to look up and watch the videos from Pebber to remind myself of all the various things we're learning with these. So first, I suppose I did what you're doing. But then I thought about how often I'd play say 9 notes on a single string with no accenting. Maybe, but probably not all that much. So pretty quickly I ditched that method of practicing these drills. Maybe I'm hindering myself in some way by having done this. Am I?

Anyway, I decided to add in ACCENTS while playing these exercises, with all sorts of timings. For just one example of many, while playing 7-notes per string I'll try to accent every 3rd note. So continuing this example, I'll play 2 triplets on a string accenting the first note of each. Then the 1st note of the next triplet on the same string, accented, followed by the final two notes of this 3rd triplet on an adjacent string, neither accented. Etc. So for each exercise in this section (1 through 10 notes per string), I'd do groups of 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 & 8 notes. Or at least I'd try by best to do so.

I found a few things when doing it this way. First, I was able to hear the timing much better when playing with accented notes. Second, I found that my picking and ears (timing-wise) got a MUCH better workout as the note on which I had to shift strings was not constant. I mean when I did 1/16th notes and 4 notes per string it was, but hopefully you see in the first example I gave it wasn't. Third, I found that this method transferred REALLY WELL when I shifted from this type of picking exercise (no fretting work) to actually running scales.

Anyway, do you do this too? If not, why not? If so, I'd like to read your opinion on why you prefer one or the other.

-Damon

PS. Since you're picking technique seems too good to not be practicing scales WHILE you do picking exercises, I'm probably going to keep suggesting that to you each time you ask us for feedback. I think you're beyond ready. If you don't want to pick one of the 5, 7 or 14 position systems, at least start doing these picking exercises with the chromatic forms, wholetone or diminshed patterns!

Scroll up

#19

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:24 am
by diegopaudyal • 91 Posts

Quote: dlraben wrote in post #19
Diego, you clearly are able to play these different note divisions on a single string without accents. I guess when I practice these exercises though, I do them a little differently. I'll have to look up and watch the videos from Pebber to remind myself of all the various things we're learning with these. So first, I suppose I did what you're doing. But then I thought about how often I'd play say 9 notes on a single string with no accenting. Maybe, but probably not all that much. So pretty quickly I ditched that method of practicing these drills. Maybe I'm hindering myself in some way by having done this. Am I?

Anyway, I decided to add in ACCENTS while playing these exercises, with all sorts of timings. For just one example of many, while playing 7-notes per string I'll try to accent every 3rd note. So continuing this example, I'll play 2 triplets on a string accenting the first note of each. Then the 1st note of the next triplet on the same string, accented, followed by the final two notes of this 3rd triplet on an adjacent string, neither accented. Etc. So for each exercise in this section (1 through 10 notes per string), I'd do groups of 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 & 8 notes. Or at least I'd try by best to do so.

I found a few things when doing it this way. First, I was able to hear the timing much better when playing with accented notes. Second, I found that my picking and ears (timing-wise) got a MUCH better workout as the note on which I had to shift strings was not constant. I mean when I did 1/16th notes and 4 notes per string it was, but hopefully you see in the first example I gave it wasn't. Third, I found that this method transferred REALLY WELL when I shifted from this type of picking exercise (no fretting work) to actually running scales.

Anyway, do you do this too? If not, why not? If so, I'd like to read your opinion on why you prefer one or the other.

-Damon

PS. Since you're picking technique seems too good to not be practicing scales WHILE you do picking exercises, I'm probably going to keep suggesting that to you each time you ask us for feedback. I think you're beyond ready. If you don't want to pick one of the 5, 7 or 14 position systems, at least start doing these picking exercises with the chromatic forms, wholetone or diminshed patterns!


Dlraben, I guess we do not play often say 9 notes per string without accenting but practicing these drills has helped a lot in counting inside my head. If I do not accent any notes while practicing, I am forced to count inside my head which I think is not easy to accomplish. I cannot say if you are hindering yourself in some way. May be you are. I can't be sure.

I will start playing these exericises with accents from now on and will let you know the results in a month or more. I guess i wasn't doing it because i didn't really think about it. Like you said its easy to hear timing while playing with accented notes. So it must be hard to hear the timing without any accent.

Yes, i do these exercises on 14 position system and chromatic system. I haven't learned wholetone or diminished systems yet.

Thank you and I appreciate your advice.

Scroll up

#20

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:54 am
by diegopaudyal • 91 Posts

Hey DLraben
How do you accent while playing in this situation? Do you just hit the accented notes harder or you palm mute all the notes but the accented note?

Scroll up

#21

RE: Strange Picking Technique

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:03 am
by dlraben • 278 Posts

Typically striking the accented note harder, but I would think both ways would be good to practice especially with what seems to be your preferred (high gain) tone.

Scroll up


Visitors
0 Members and 1 Guest are online.

We welcome our newest member: jkiger
guest counter
Today were 62 (yesterday 297) guests and 1 (yesterday 2) members online.

Board Statistics
The forum has 809 topics and 7800 posts.

1 member has been online today :
GuitarStyles88