#1

Chord Substituitions

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:44 pm
by Guitar Player • 83 Posts

Ok, My knowledge of chords is only very basic but here goes.

For a simplistic 1, 6, 2, 5 in C(C, Am, Dm and G), I like to do these Subsitutions for 1, 6, 2, 5 in C(Cadd9, Am9, Dm7 and Gadd9). That example is very basic. Fellow forum members please add your ideas to this topic. This chord progression can and could be applied to all 12 major keys. Once again, I would like to thank Pebber and everyone for all of their help and encouragement for all of us fellow guitar players.

I will add more ideas to this topic.

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#2

RE: Chord Substituitions

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:31 pm
by dlraben • 278 Posts

This could be a cool thread. But not as cool as it would be with videos. Don't be shy, post some! I'd love to see and hear your PGM301 in action.


Instead of reading this you should be practicing. Slowly. With a metronome.
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#3

RE: Chord Substituitions

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:00 pm
by uderoche (deleted)
avatar

I agree with dlraben. Let's get some vids happening on this thread. It's the 21st century. On some of these topics (not all) we need to be conversing through videos.


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#4

RE: Chord Substituitions

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:48 pm
by pebberbrown • 901 Posts

It would be more accurate to just use G9 not G(add9).

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#5

RE: Chord Substituitions

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:11 am
by Justip • 41 Posts

Hi Guitar Player

I look at it like this. C is Major the One Tone, Am is the Sixth tone with a flat Third, Dm is the Second tone with a flat third.
G is the 5th Tone.

Am Chord Scale will have three swaps and variations. Melodic Chord Scales, Harmonic Minor Chord Scales and Natural minor Chord Scales.

Asides from that C M can be replaced with CMaj7 or CMaj6 or CMaj9 or CAug amougst other. The next to both have to contain minor thirds Am can be Adim or Am7 Amin9 Amin 11, or Am 13 like wise for Dmin, D min 9 or D min 7 or D dim or even Dm7b5 or D min 11 as for the G G7, G9,G5th G13,G Aug or any G thing thats not minor or containg a flat third notr

However C is the sane notes as Am. Swap some Am Chord Scales into the mix nore it gets more interesting


Practice,Practice, Practice

Last edited Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:15 am | Scroll up

#6

RE: Chord Substituitions

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:46 am
by Scottulus • 222 Posts

A few ideas. Yes I like the #11 on the one chord, I am not a fan of the min2nd rub between the E and the F, but if you would rather use a natural11 be my guest, nat11 on Imaj7 is not my favourite tension in this context...

|Cmaj7#11 Amin6 | Dmin9 G7sus4 G7|

A passing diminished idea...
|Cmaj7#11 C#dim7 Amin6 A#dim7 | Dmin9 D#Dim7 G9 G#dim7|

Tritone Substitution Db7 for G7 (Use Db Lydian Dominant for this brief moment of soloing...)
|Cmaj6/9 Amin7 | Dmin6 Db7 |


http://www.scottkerrmusic.com
http://www.youtube.com/Scottulus
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#7

RE: Chord Substituitions

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:09 am
by Scottulus • 222 Posts

Quote: Justip wrote in post #5
Hi Guitar Player

I look at it like this. C is Major the One Tone, Am is the Sixth tone with a flat Third, Dm is the Second tone with a flat third.
G is the 5th Tone.

Am Chord Scale will have three swaps and variations. Melodic Chord Scales, Harmonic Minor Chord Scales and Natural minor Chord Scales.

Asides from that C M can be replaced with CMaj7 or CMaj6 or CMaj9 or CAug amougst other. The next to both have to contain minor thirds Am can be Adim or Am7 Amin9 Amin 11, or Am 13 like wise for Dmin, D min 9 or D min 7 or D dim or even Dm7b5 or D min 11 as for the G G7, G9,G5th G13,G Aug or any G thing thats not minor or containg a flat third notr

However C is the sane notes as Am. Swap some Am Chord Scales into the mix nore it gets more interesting




Replacing the I chord with an augmented triad is, ummm a bit gross. That G# leads you down a different path functionally (A Harmonic minor as it's 3 chord Cmaj7#5, but then all of your other chords sort of need to change also, Amin/maj7 Dmin7 and a G# dim7...) Gotta be careful with modal interchange, it has a pretty big impact on what else happens in the progression, available tensions, etc

Dmin7b5 isn't a bad substitution, but as a ii chord, it likes to go to the G7 (a G7b9 is very cool) and finally resolve to Cminor. The Cmaj7 resolution is fine, but if you are playing over that, gotta be aware of the changes. Just blowing a Cmajor/Aminor scale over the whole thing will not work. Not really. Plus, you sort of lose sight of the original I vi ii V concept.

You know you could substitute an Emin for Cmaj7, Fmaj7 for the Dmin and an Cmaj7 for Amin, and a Bmin7b5 for G7;
and if you played those chords over your C Amin Dmin G7 bassline, it's another way of re-iterating the 1625 harmony...

|Emin Cmaj7|Fmaj7 Bmin7b5|

And for context; lol here is the progression with slashchords...

|Emin/C Cmaj7/A|Fmaj7/D Bmin7b5/G|

1)Know the notes in each chord
2)Know the key signature from which the progression is derived (Tonal center)
3)Know the available tensions for each chord based on function
4)The Real book has oodles of progressions to see, hear and analyze...


http://www.scottkerrmusic.com
http://www.youtube.com/Scottulus
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#8

RE: Chord Substituitions

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:30 pm
by Guitar Player • 83 Posts

Quote: Scottulus wrote in post #6
A few ideas. Yes I like the #11 on the one chord, I am not a fan of the min2nd rub between the E and the F, but if you would rather use a natural11 be my guest, nat11 on Imaj7 is not my favourite tension in this context...

|Cmaj7#11 Amin6 | Dmin9 G7sus4 G7|

A passing diminished idea...
|Cmaj7#11 C#dim7 Amin6 A#dim7 | Dmin9 D#Dim7 G9 G#dim7|

Tritone Substitution Db7 for G7 (Use Db Lydian Dominant for this brief moment of soloing...)
|Cmaj6/9 Amin7 | Dmin6 Db7 |




Thank you everyone for all of your input into this thread. I have attached a PDF file of some tabulature for people to check out. Regarding my first post in this topic with the Cadd9 chord and Pebber said to me it better to call it just C9 he is correct. For the longest time I knew nothing about chord extensions. Years ago, I learned to play the song Message in a Bottle by the group The Police.

The main riff of that song uses Parallel 5th's. I think they are also known as "Add9's" or sometimes "sus2's". I just assumed all chords with a 9th are known as "Add9's" but I was wrong. It is different when a chord has a third in it to make in either major or minor tonality. I have tabbed out the open riff to that song in the PDF attached as it a good exercise for using the 1st, 2nd and 4th fingers.

The second example is a 1, 6, 2, 5 chord progression in the key of C. The chords are C major 7, A minor 9, D minor 11 and G7. It is a progression that is very standard in Jazz music but wouldn't be used in regular pop/rock music. I got that from a Joe Pass guitar tuition video.

The third example is another 1, 6, 2, 5 chord progresssion in the key of E. The chords are E. C Augmented(the only substituition in the progression), F sharp minor 7 and B7.

The fourth example is how I sometimes play a Major scale in this instance in the key of A. I use 4 notes per string(using my 1st, 2nd and 4th fingers), I sllde up/down to 4th note with my fourth finger.

The fifth example is a diminished lick using the 1st, 2nd and 4th fingers. This lick is quite hard to play so do not attempt it unless you are really warmed up and keep your thumb at the back of the neck. I do this lick using hammer ons.

It is a vital thing for players to be able to use all 4 fingers on the fretboard....the thumb over the top of the neck constantly is a severe hinderance if a player wants to play modern guitar rock/metal/shred(I hate the word shred!) stuff. In all honesty though.....players in rock guitar have been all 4 fingers for at last the past 30 years. Most of what players do now is borrowed from what players such as Al Di Meola and Eddie Van Halen were doing in the late 70's.

I hope people find the examples I have attached in the PDF file helpful.


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examples 1.pdf examples 1.pdf
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#9

RE: Chord Substituitions

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:05 pm
by Guitar Player • 83 Posts

Another thing relating to chord progressions are passing chords. For instance in the key of C in a I,IV,V or Vdom7. C, F and G(or G7). In between the F and G(or G7) you can play F - D7, G(or G7). 1st inversion C, 1st inversion D7, 2nd inversion G(or G7) as the D7 contains F sharp which is a chromatic movement in G perfect octive

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#10

RE: Chord Substituitions

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:59 am
by dlraben • 278 Posts

Guitar Player, on the one hand I feel a little bad harping on this--that you really need to post videos to express ideas such as these in context--so please forgive me if you find this irritating. That's not my intention. But on the other hand, I'm not sure any information is really conveyed to other players without providing more than text. Grab a web-cam, hide your face if you like, and let us see/hear you. No need for embarrassment, we all suck in various ways.

Your latest ideas:

1. Sus chords & message in a bottle. Ok. Not much else to say. Easy to learn, unique sound, boring as heck to repeat for 4 minutes. Some of the fill licks over this progression towards the end of the song are cool too. What makes them work? Are they simple licks that can be used anywhere, or does the suspended harmony allow for more?

2. A 1-6-2-5 in C you got from a video. I bet the instructor didn't say, hey, instead of using C, Am, Dm, G just use Cmaj7, Amin9, Dmin11, G7 to sound jazzy. For what purpose were these substitutions used, and how did it open up the possibilities for melodies over this harmony compared to the diatonic triads? Oh, and MOST importantly, how does it sound? Just reading there's a difference isn't helping most people.

3. The 1-6-2-5 in E. Same idea.

4. The 4nps in A. Look up Pebber's scaletone form system, in particular the 4:4 variety, for all the 4nps shapes. I personally feel the 3:3, 3:4, and 4:3 are more practical, but to each their own. At some point the goal is to fluidly play anything without the crutch of shapes/patterns anyway.

5. Playing minor 3rds. Not a bad hand stretching exercise. I used that for awhile (3 finger ladders), but even better would be to include shifts so you can remain in minor 3rds across strings (e.g. 3 nps, 1 nps, 3 nps, etc just for one example). There are other good symmetrical patterns for this too, some more melodic than others. For example, you could play two adjacent pentatonic positions. Once you get that down, you can add a third shape (skipping one or not) using a tapping finger.


Instead of reading this you should be practicing. Slowly. With a metronome.
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#11

RE: Chord Substituitions

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:23 am
by Scottulus • 222 Posts

Hey Guitarplayer, maybe it would be worthwhile to spend some time with a Method book for a bit? Will Leavitt's are really good and cover all of the basics. Modern Method Of Guitar vol 1,2,3. (my friends are so tired of me harping about 'em...)
Also some lessons with someone? even if they aren't teaching "superduper fireball technique" I bet you learn some important basics.

Also just a bit of a terminology thing here; a Csus2 would be CDG R25 And Csus4 would be CFG R45, and Cadd9 would be CEGD R359 A suspension happens when the 3rd is replaced with a 2nd or a 4th. An "add" happens when the tension/interval is added to the chord, and the 3rd is left.

C9 is a dominant 7th with an added 9th. (a 9th is the same as a maj2nd, just an octave higher. understanding tensions can be tricky. so C9 is CEGBb and D. R35b79 - not the same as a Cadd9. C7add9 maybe... but C9 is a much more common way to label that one...

Anytime you see a chord with just a number, G7 E13 B9 It is dominant. if the tension is altered, you will see it as G7b9 or B7#11.

if a chord is major, it will tell you. Cmaj7. if it is minor, it will tell you. Dmin7. Altered tensions, same deal. Dmaj7#11. etc etc.

Hope that helps.


http://www.scottkerrmusic.com
http://www.youtube.com/Scottulus
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#12

RE: Chord Substituitions

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:44 am
by Justip • 41 Posts

Hi
Here is a small vid Done in key of C while trying to accommodate chord substitutions. it a C, Am Dm G progression with some alternate fingerings on some chords.
Must admit its not timed just a kind of a give it a go thing.
Chords Used not in any order C,Am, Dm, G, CMaj9, CAug, C13, Am6, Am7, Am9 Dm6,Dm7, Dm9, Gsus, G(no fifth), Gma7, and a G9.



Mostly used hybrid pickin'
any feed back will be welcomed.

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