#1

Module 3: Scale Practice

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:00 am
by Farelli • 187 Posts

In my post, Module 1 Right Hand Exercises, deltadiscos and I started talking about learning scales, and I decided it was time to open a new thread because I'd like to keep the topics separate.

I recently started getting back into my guitar and general theory development, and I started by doing huge amounts of work on the major scale. I did every exercise at least twice and I have firmly got the major scales, circles (or matrices) of 4ths and 5ths, key signatures, and relative minors into my head. I'll review regularly, but that system is hugely helpful.

Next I'm moving to scale systems so I can take that theory knowledge and put it to work on the fingerboard. So I mapped out the 5-position system, 7-position system, 14-position system, and the Scaletone Form system. I'll now be working on the 14-position system because it includes the 7, and once I get that under my fingers I'll add the Scaletone Form system.

This post is getting long so I'll add a reply now.

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#2

RE: Module 3: Scale Practice

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:14 am
by Farelli • 187 Posts

While working on the fingerboard maps for the major scales, I noticed some interesting things.

First, I always had a glancing knowledge of where the roots were, particularly the C notes, but I definitely didn't have them memorized (and I still don't quite). But as I worked on the scales my understanding went up and I noticed some really, really obvious things that I should have known twenty years ago.

First, anyone who is paying even the slightest bit of attention toward their fingerboard knows that the two E strings are duplicates, two octaves apart. That means that any note on the 6th string is duplicated on the 1st. As an example, the G notes played in the open position G chord.

As I worked on the scales, I came to think of these duplicated notes as a sort of reset in the pattern of root notes. There are four roots between each one, like this:



While I worked further, I began to think of it instead as a pattern whereby the root starts on the 6th string and moves down as you go up the fingerboard, then starting again on the 5th string and then resetting when you reach the 6th and 1st string roots, like this:



Now these are just two arbitrary ways of thinking about the same thing but I found it really helpful in memorizing the root note positions.

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#3

RE: Module 3: Scale Practice

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:31 am
by Farelli • 187 Posts

And finally, my most recent obvious observation regarding scales.

While mapping out the Scaletone Form system (all tones, all forms), I had a serious facepalm moment.

With every scaletone, Forms 3 and 4 are three complete octaves ending on the 7th degree. Using scaletone 1 as an example, you get one of the following:



By contrast, Form 5 are three complete octaves plus 3 extra notes. Each string pair always ends on the same note with which it began:



And then I counted to find that Form 1 is always 17 notes, Form 2 is always 18 notes (3 NPS, of course), Forms 3 and 4 are always 21 notes (three octaves), and Form 5 is 24 notes (three octaves plus 3, ending on the 3rd degree in Scaletone 1).

Cool stuff.

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#4

RE: Module 3: Scale Practice

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:43 am
by Farelli • 187 Posts

I noticed something about the 14-position system that I forgot to mention the other day.

It is essentially the 7-position system with some slight variances.

The 7-position (3NPS) system is positions 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, and 14 of the 14-position system. So if you've already learned the 7-position system you're halfway home.

The 5-position (CAGED) system is positions 1, 4, 7, and 13 of the 14-position system. Those correspond to the CAGED positions 1, 2, 3, and 5 and only once is the position the same as one in the 7-position system. So if you also know the CAGED system you know an additional 3 positions of the 14-position system for a total of 10. You then have only 4 more to learn.

But none of that knowledge is required, because the 14-position system follows a fairly simple rule.

Positions 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, and 13 are always of the stringmap 333323 or 333233. That means they always have one string with only two notes on it.

Positions 1, 3, 9, and 11 are the map 333323. That means they always have 2 notes on the 2nd (B) string.

Positions 5, 7, and 13 are the map 333233. They always have 2 notes on the 3rd (G) string.

Any even position is altered only slightly from the previous odd position (2 & 1, 4 & 3, etc.). It always begins on the same note on the 6th (E) string, and is always identical to the previous position up to either the 4th (D) string or the 3rd (G) string, depending on where the 2 note string is in that position.

The 2 note string must become 3 notes in the even position, so that is the alteration. It necessarily alters every other finger positioning up the scale.

Example, using positions 3 and 4 of the 14-position system:



In these two positions, each note is identical until the 15va (second octave G). In position 3 is is on the 6th string and in position 4 it is on the 5th string. This changes the subsequent note fingering.

So basically if you don't have the CAGED or 3NPS systems committed to memory it doesn't matter, because you really only need to learn 7 positions with 2 variations each. And those variations help you learn the notes better on the 1st through 3rd strings, where it's typically harder to learn them. (The 4th through 6th strings are easier because of the roots in your barre chords.)

Well, that's enough of all that thinking for a while. Time to play.

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#5

RE: Module 3: Scale Practice

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:38 am
by Farelli • 187 Posts

I've started including the chromatic scales and exercises into my practice, and I love them.

That is all.

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#6

RE: Module 3: Scale Practice

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:57 am
by Ray1981 • 279 Posts

Hey Farelli,

Im doing the chromatic scale exercises as well they are very good I noticed. I feel i get more control over my left hand fingers after doing them for a couple of weeks.

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#7

RE: Module 3: Scale Practice

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:46 am
by Farelli • 187 Posts

Yes. I'm also working on trills and doing finger exercises while driving the car 3.5 hours per day. I am rapidly developing better control over my 4th finger, which is very strong but I think developed in the wrong way due to a lack of instruction.

Last night while performing trills I found I was able to pull my 4th finger in better, and also keep my 3rd and 4th fingers pulled in tight while trilling only fingers 1 and 2, for example. I had to pay attention to it but I could do it.

I'm also pulling in both my 4th fingers now while typing this. I've never been trained how to type and I normally type with my 4th fingers extended. I can now concentrate and pull them in tight when they're not being used.

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#8

RE: Module 3: Scale Practice

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:00 am
by Ray1981 • 279 Posts

That seems great Farelli! It is always very cool to see when you make some progress, this gives me energy to keep going on with all these exercises from Pebber. But I still have a very long way to go!!!

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#9

RE: Module 3: Scale Practice

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:46 am
by Farelli • 187 Posts

Here's a video of me sucking at the 14-position scale system, and talking about some of the concepts I mentioned above:

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#10

RE: Module 3: Scale Practice

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:24 am
by Ray1981 • 279 Posts

Great video Farelli

I'm not doing the 14 pos system yet because I know only the 5 pos in Major and Mel Min and I want to know them all before going to the 7 or 14 pos.

Anyhow I think your finger placement lookks very nice. The thumb the good behind the neck and finger 1 to 4 are slightly curved as it should be (IMO).

On your 1st arpaggio I struggled a long time on that too. I place now my pinky on string 4 and 5 at the same time when coming back to the root. Maybe this will help you. If you dont understand me I make a small video to show you what I do.

Grtz Ray

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#11

RE: Module 3: Scale Practice

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:27 am
by Farelli • 187 Posts

Hey Ray,

Yes I think I know what you mean, but I always fall short on the fourth finger. I really need to work on that one.

The A shape arpeggio at the tenth feet is also a problem for me for the same reason. Trying to Barre those notes without letting them all ring is difficult.

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#12

RE: Module 3: Scale Practice

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:32 am
by Ray1981 • 279 Posts

Youre right it is a nasty fingering im still struggeling with it too. And I left the scales asside for a while just to pick and finger better. But this week I'm going back to ccomplete the 5 pos system. I really would like to know the other 2 minor scales and 2 pentatonics in all 5 positions.

Im going to take a look to your other posts as well, Im curious :)

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#13

RE: Module 3: Scale Practice

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:14 am
by Farelli • 187 Posts

As I mentioned elsewhere, last night I started mapping out the scaletone form system in melodic and harmonic minor. I intend to learn every scaletone and form in all three scales before moving to the next.

Once I mapped them I spent about an hour looping the Gm backing track and just noodling on the two minor scales, randomly switching between the two. I love the augmented second between the flat 6th and major 7th of the harmonic minor scale. I found myself riffing on that for extended periods of time.

This is all in an effort to gain the ability to see a scale on the entire neck at once, the way Allan Holdsworth mentions in his old video (available from Pebber's channel).

I also mapped out scaletone 1 in both melodic and harmonic last night, and then played around with them on the 4th through 6th strings. I found the 1-2-b3-4 stretch in G to be an awesome exercise for hand stretching.

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#14

RE: Module 3: Scale Practice

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:01 pm
by Farelli • 187 Posts

This exercise is proving to be a huge help. I have done up to scaletone 4 now and I am getting a much better feel for the locations of all the notes up the neck.

I am also working on some left hand stretches on the fingerboard and finding them easier to do. Every day I'm spending at least 30 minutes on getting that thumb strength up to allow a persistent 5 to 6 fret stretch between fingers 1 and 4.

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