#1

Scalpel Picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:53 pm
by ashan • 187 Posts

i've been practicing this for 3 weeks now since i stumbled upon pebbers youtube channel. i practice open string 1 to 8 subdivisions per beat. i started at 45 bpm and i increased 5 beats per week. so im going at 55 bpm this week. i do 1 subdivision for around 15 minutes on a single string going 2 rounds down and up all strings.

1. is this the way i should do it?

2. some in the forum has mentioned that they practice strokes differently. like 1 session of upstrokes another of downstrokes the alternte picking.

3. im playing in a dance band. we play easty listening music covering from country to rock(not jazz and metal though im into metal and fusion myself. greg howe steve vai etc etc) ive been trying to apply this technique to live playing and i notice im very uncomfortable playing unanchored(8 years of playing the guitar the wrong way). what should i do. i certainly dont want to abandon what im learning from pebber but i do make living out of the band. i know scalpal is the correct way because i have notice the increase of speed in tremolo picking and i manage to playy every note clearly(i used to miss at least 1 note out of 100 before)

should i increase the time i spend on picking exercises?


Last edited Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:37 pm | Scroll up

#2

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:00 pm
by ashan • 187 Posts

im definitely not expecting immediate results. im just seeking advice since using this technique hindering my live playing(at the moment))
thanks in advance

* i forgot mention that i used to anchor - and use the pick parallel to the string. so what im learning now is completely alien to me


Last edited Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:38 pm | Scroll up

#3

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:09 am
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

Its SCALPEL not "scalpal"!


Last edited Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:39 pm | Scroll up

#4

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:54 am
by ashan • 187 Posts

sorry about that.


Last edited Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:38 pm | Scroll up

#5

RE: scalpal picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:19 am
by AceLuby • 63 Posts

Ok, I could easily be wrong here, but based on the videos and lessons this is what I've taken from this (I'm still learning)...

1. You are using muscles you've never used before and 3 weeks is nowhere near enough time to have your muscles in your hand built. Because of this you should be doing upstrokes only, downstrokes only, then alternate as 3 separate exercises to build the muscles and build the muscle memory. Do this for 3 months or even 3 years if you want to get it down.

2. Ideally you'd be using this technique in your playing all the time, however, it's just not going to be possible because the muscles aren't built and your muscle memory is using the method you've been using for 8 years. Because of this, when you're playing in your band just play. When you practice, practice the correct method and over-exaggerate the motion. Eventually the practice will creep into your playing naturally, especially if you practice this picking method at home w/ the songs from your band.

3. Lastly, I'd quit trying to increase the BPMs every single week. Speed will come once you have the motion down absolutely perfectly, in perfect time, and ideally able to switch the subdivision number effortlessly. I'd be very surprised if you were making the metronome click disappear in such a short time, but I could be wrong. If you are and are ready to increase the BPMs then ignore this last part.

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#6

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:17 pm
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

You can do it this very disciplined way - its quite hard to keep it up for a long time - so mix it up. Spend a couple days a week just trying for more speed and things like that.


Last edited Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:39 pm | Scroll up

#7

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:31 pm
by ashan • 187 Posts

thanks for your advice pebber and aceluby


Last edited Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:39 pm | Scroll up

#8

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:22 am
by John567 • 156 Posts

Hey Guys,

What do you think about Joe Stump's right hand technique? It looks as if he's combining the sarod and scalpel together here in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GjYkmnY2Fk&feature=related

When he sweeps I can definitely see him switch to a scalpel approach. But I don't know if he's doing a real sarod approach because it looks as if his right hand is resting against the guitar.

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#9

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:14 pm
by FRaKh • 320 Posts

Nah....
All wrist(relaxed) plus some thumb pointer type of picking.
Even looked a little bit similar to Mr. Malmsteen.

Sarod is very distinct...watch the forearm of guys who know how to....
its that cylindrical rotational movement that gives it away.

btw....hows everybody doing with sarod?????


“A World Without String Is Chaos”

Randolf Smuntz

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#10

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:23 pm
by John567 • 156 Posts

Ahhhh, the forearm. I should've thought of that. Thanks FRaKh!

My sarod sucks but its improving. Its been about a month of doing it daily. Each day is a different string (Sunday=string 1, Monday=string 2, etc). I'm still working on my group of 5's from Pebber's DVD. At first it was impossible. I literally had to slow my metronome down to 35 BPM and chant "1 2 3 4 5" (I also use Pebber's "fuck you, fuck you too" meditation as well). It reminds me of learning to ride a bike when I was a kid. I would wobble a bit then find my balance and pedal as much as I can. I'm at about 62 BPM. I've been moving about a beat a day. I find the odd numbers the hardest for me.

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#11

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:09 am
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

Ahh yes the "Fuck you - fuck you too" meditation works quite well and its easy to remember. Thats the one EVERYONE liked to use back in the day at the Grove School of Music back in the late 1970's and early 80's. Frank Zappa used "Guacamole Queen" and my daughter likes "Avacado King." Whatever you use, its supposed to help you LOCK into a steady 5 beat group. 35 on the metronome is no laughing matter - thats exactly where you should start if it feels foreign to you. Good job!

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#12

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:02 am
by ashan • 187 Posts

in which video is this meditation you talk about?

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#13

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:45 am
by uderoche (deleted)
avatar

Quote: John567 wrote in post #8
Hey Guys,

What do you think about Joe Stump's right hand technique? It looks as if he's combining the sarod and scalpel together here in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GjYkmnY2Fk&feature=related

When he sweeps I can definitely see him switch to a scalpel approach. But I don't know if he's doing a real sarod approach because it looks as if his right hand is resting against the guitar.


As frakh said, that's all wrist. Some slight scalpel. No sarod. Even Yngwie says he uses scalpel although he doesn't call it that...he calls it "thumb movement" and he says he isn't consciously aware that he's doing it.

Joe and his wife come to New Orleans quite a bit. A buddy of mine ran into him in a bar a couple years ago. My friend said, "Don't I know you?" To which the reply was, "Yeah I'm Joe Stump. I'm the American Yngwie."

Funny


-Ursin

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#14

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:02 am
by uderoche (deleted)
avatar

Also Joe Stump uses lots of economy picking. Not just to sweep but to play scales as well. That's why his playing sounds a tiny bit different than Yngwie and kind of has a "blur"? type sound to it. Blur....might not the best adjective. But, anyway, he's a big economy picker and, to me anyway, it changes the feel quite a bit. So, you may hear and notice that as well.


-Ursin

Last edited Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:03 am | Scroll up

#15

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:55 pm
by FRaKh • 320 Posts

oH MAN YES!
I think a player plays differently with economy.
you have to really...really practice it in order to be comfortable with it to avoid a hiccup effect....

I play completely different with economy than with alternate. I dont like it....my taste.
Its a hiccup effect for me.
BUT!!!
With Sarod.....the speed IS there!!!!
No need for economy....at the same time one could use pull offs as sort of a way to play faster and then reengage picking at easier points...
but thats up to the individual.

At the same time.....learn EVERYTHING...become a MASTER AT EVERYTHING!!!!!!

I like Joe...good player..
you know who Im getting a kick out of....Tosin Abasi...not so much his tech...but his ideas and actual sound settings....Id love to see his equipment!!!!! Some day FRaKh will have goodt studio!


“A World Without String Is Chaos”

Randolf Smuntz

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#16

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:18 pm
by FRaKh • 320 Posts

Ahh goodt....the "fuck you" method is the best!
Just try to say it softly....people around you will start to get scared when you say it to yourself!!!


“A World Without String Is Chaos”

Randolf Smuntz

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#17

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:40 pm
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

But FrAKh! dont you remember our slogan?
"WE DO NOT CARE!"

ahhh ha ha ha

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#18

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:01 pm
by FRaKh • 320 Posts

AhhhhAA,,,,FRaKh forgot...

then...we change to thee yelling method...like thees..

Now we include not just 5s...but 10s!!!
Fuck You.....NO....FUCK YOU!......Fuck ME?.....NOOO...FUCK YOU!!!

and of course the sayingk can be manipulated accordingly...whether you are practicing 5s....10s...7s....ect!
also...fuck this...fuck that..fuck it...and my favorite...fuck her...are very goodt suggestions.


This must be said out loud at a Starbucks...must wear sunglasses as well!
oh...must drink hot coffee on hot day as well!


“A World Without String Is Chaos”

Randolf Smuntz

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#19

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:04 pm
by ashan • 187 Posts

when sarod picking whole right hand should be loose from the guitar body right? had to post this question after the post mentioning sarod picking requires rotation of forearm. i think I've only paid attention to wrist movements and not the forearm itself.

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#20

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:57 pm
by FRaKh • 320 Posts

hhmmm....depends....
If your going to mute....your hand should be on the strings...for the mute.
but
in general....
its up to your tech. I do keep it loose and above the body...most of my forearm is above as well.
The main idea is two parts...
the forearm and the scalpel tech. blended together.
Have you seen the Sarod thread?
I really tried to explain the idea as best as I can. I think your answer will be explained and shown there.

Also....shoot a video..and ask for advise...its no problem. Many on here are exceptional players willing to help!
:)


“A World Without String Is Chaos”

Randolf Smuntz

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#21

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:25 pm
by ashan • 187 Posts

im still 'trying' to get scalpel picking under my finger frakh. your post helps a lot i didn't know i was supposed to keep my forearm off the body of the guitar. thanks. I'll post video soon. im practicing separate movements (upstrokes, downstrokes and alternate) at a tempo of 45 bpm stroke per beat starting this week. 3 minutes on each string(will increase the time slowly). thanks all. i will definitely practice sarod in the future. after im im comfortable with scalpel picking

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#22

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:30 pm
by FRaKh • 320 Posts

Good.....
Yeah get each down before you blend...its easier that way plus its correct.


“A World Without String Is Chaos”

Randolf Smuntz

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#23

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:35 pm
by FRaKh • 320 Posts

If you do make a video(about Sarod) put it in the Sarod thread...if you like...this way similar question/answers can be lumped together in one place.
or
Start a new thread...which ever is fine.


“A World Without String Is Chaos”

Randolf Smuntz

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#24

RE: SCALPEL picking

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:47 pm
by ashan • 187 Posts

by now im able to play live with my right hand completely unanchored.

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