#1

Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon May 31, 2010 5:51 pm
by Yanming • 4 Posts

yeah... having trouble with it, I can find all the modes on the guitar neck but how do I take any one of the modes, and make a nice chord progression, and how would i approach trying to write a good solo with it?

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#2

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon May 31, 2010 8:31 pm
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

Do you know all the modes?
What are the formulas for each mode.
Go ahead start typing.

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#3

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon May 31, 2010 9:16 pm
by uderoche (deleted)
avatar

Oh man...plus the modes of harmonic minor and melodic minor?!?!?!? What about Messian's modes? One of my favorite composers. Listen to his "Quartet For The End Of Time."

And how to apply them??? This is gonna be a LONG thread.

Good question though, and you are definitely among the right people if this is the knowledge you desire.


STFU! - Pebber Brown

Last edited Mon May 31, 2010 9:20 pm | Scroll up

#4

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:54 am
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

Dont stray from the question. IF you dont know how say so.
Forget about all the modes of Hamronic And Melodci minor for now
and Oliver Messiaen's modes. Get to the point.
Write all 7 modes out and the formulas.
Can you just do that. Just that. Nothing more.


Last edited Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:55 am | Scroll up

#5

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:57 am
by be&say • 12 Posts

Can you SING them?

To me that's the big question.

Fingerings, interval excersises and everything else fall way back on my list (and I do use EVERY diatonic fingering Pebber talks about hehehe).

Also they're worlds by themselves harmonically speaking (huuuuuuuuuge subject).


http://www.beandsay.com
besay@beandsay.com
beandsayguitar@gmail.com

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#6

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:06 am
by uderoche (deleted)
avatar

Mick Goodrick wrote an amazing book on modes called "The Advancing Guitarist."


STFU! - Pebber Brown

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#7

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:09 pm
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

My colleague at Styles Music (Ryan Seward) was a longtime student of Mick Goodrick - he went on to Berklee College of Music and became a straight ahead jazz bebop player and was a hard core disciple of Mick Goodrick. We talk about Mick almost every 2 hours every day. He has all the intense lesson materials I should get him on here you guys would love him.


Last edited Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:06 pm | Scroll up

#8

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:10 pm
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

OK perfect!
Now map out the IONIAN mode in G and C om the neck and make a PDF file
and upload it here.

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#9

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:11 pm
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

Yes - everyone completely fucks UP badly when they dont follow the steps ONE AT A TIME. I have taught over 100,000 guitar lessons and 97% of ALL PEOPLE do not follow and CAN NOT FOLLOW basic simple step by step instructions without fucking it up.


Last edited Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:13 pm | Scroll up

#10

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:49 pm
by Yanming • 4 Posts

uhh.... sorry if i sound dumb, but is this what you mean by formula?

ionian- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
dorian- 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
phyrigian - 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
lydian- 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7
mixolydian- 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
aeolian- 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
locrian- 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7

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#11

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:10 pm
by No name specified • ( Guest )
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Yep, that's what we mean when we say formula. ;)

Ok, I made a quick pdf file of G & C Ionian...


Attachment:
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Ionian for pebber.pdf Ionian for pebber.pdf
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#12

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:12 pm
by jimiclaptoncarl • 117 Posts

Dang it, that was me, I keep forgetting to log in...


"Let's face it, You suck; now what are you going to do about it?" - Dick Grove

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#13

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:22 pm
by daniele • 12 Posts

If u want to make a backtrack with 2 or 3 chords to play modal I can give u some info.
Hope to be clear.Thats what I know:

1 To find wich chords are good to create a modal progression u must learn how to harmonize a scale.
Example:To play in G phrigyan write down the note belonging to G scale wich are G-Ab-Bb-C-D-Eb-F.
2 Harmonize the scale in chords with 3 or 4 notes.U are going to create a triad from each note in the scale of G that will give u 7chords
based on Root-3rd-5th-7th.
3 From G prygian U got:1st chord 1 3 5 7 Gmin7
G-Ab-Bb-C-D-Eb-F

1 3 5 7 AbMaj7
2nd chord G-Ab-Bb-C-D-Eb-F-G

1 3 5 7 Bb7
3rd chord G-Ab-Bb-C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab

and so on till u have all 7 chords wich will be Gm7-AbM7-Bb7-Cm7-Dm7b5-EbM7-Fm7.
Now U can take this chords to make a prygian progression but keep in mind that Any mode have some chords that fits better.
A G prygian progression could be Gm7-Bb7-Cm7-AbM7 or u can use a G as bass note and then the chord.Ex: Gm-AbM7/G.

I hope U don t get confused cauz some theory here is required to understand what I ve said (If i'm saying bullshit someone here will correct me i hope cauz I never finish to learn).Since I ve been doing some backingtrack to practice the modes i can share some info.Here s what I know.

IONIAN IN E
I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-vii°
E-F#m-g#m-A-B-C#mD#m°

The chords that will give U the most Ionian mood are :
Root: Emaj7
Perfect 4th:Amaj7
Perfect 5th B7

DORIAN IN E

Em-F#m-G-A-Bm-C#°-D
Root:Emadd6 or Em6
Natural 2nd:F#m7
Perfect 4th:A7

Prygian IN E

Em-F-G-Am-B°-C-Dm
Root :Em7
Flat 2nd :FM7


Lydian in E

E-F#-G#m-A#°-B-C#m-D@m

Root:EM7
Natural 2nd:F#7
perfect 5th:BM7

Mixolidian in E

E-F#m-G#°-A-Bm-C#m-D

Root :E7
Min7th :D

Aeolian in E

Em-F#m-G-Am-Bm-C-D-

Root:Em
Perf 4th:Am6
Perf 5th:Bm

Locrian in E

E°-F-Gm-Am-Bb-C-Dm

Root:E°7------Em7b5.



U can use this to find the most used chords in modal vamps in each mode:

Ionian: IMaj7 - IVMaj7 - V7
Dorian: i6 - ii7 - IV7
Phrygian: i - bIIMaj7
Lydian: I - II7 - VMaj7
Mixolydian: I7 - bVII
Aeolian: i - iv(6) - v
Locrian: i°


This are for what I ve learned the most common progression that will give a modal sound.Hope I ve been clear and more than all I hope that what I ve said is right.
If possible i can give u some link where u can learn something related modes and some theory on how to harmonize scales in order to make ur modal progression(until Pebber will explain modes)If Pebber tell me he 's ok .I want to make clear a thing.This is my 2nd post here.I don t want to sound like a teacher.Im just sharing what i know.Good luck m8


Last edited Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:26 pm | Scroll up

#14

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:30 pm
by daniele • 12 Posts

Well seem a little bit fucked up now that ive posted my message.I dunno how to fix this.Hope that U can understand the part related on how the G scale is harmonized to get all the chords.

I ve just found here on my notebook some modal progression Ive used for some of my backtrack.I do them with ableton live .

E Ionian :EM7-AM7

E Dorian:Em6-A7

E Phrigian:Em-FM7/E

E Lydian: E-F#/E

E Mixoliadian :E7-AM7

E Aeolian :Em-Am6-GM7


Last edited Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:35 pm | Scroll up

#15

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:53 am
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

Amen to Adam.
So many experts all want to pipe in.
A bit much - but mostly incorrect and too random.
I am planning some videos on MODES pretty soon because
everyone is so so so so confused. You really are the white
house spokesperson when you say if ypu dont know what
you are talking about then STFU!!! No one gets it yet.
Ahhh ok back to the drawing board. This time I am going
to design a Subway to Africa so we can all Go to Nigeria
and show those scammers WTF is up!


Last edited Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:04 am | Scroll up

#16

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:55 am
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

I cant stand random music theory. So many millions of guitarists know just random music theory no wonder they are all confused.

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#17

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:47 am
by daniele • 12 Posts

Signor Brown.....I'm so sorry .Just wanted to give some basic ideas to make a little modal vamp .I don t want to sound like a teacher.I'm surely not the right one.Maybe I ve misunderstood the rules of this forum.Sorry again.I didn t go that much deeper in the theory of what I ve said.Just a quick presentation and the basic ways to create a vamp thats all.No need to make me feel like a cunt.
Going to think I've started with the wrong feet in here.

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#18

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:22 am
by Yanming • 4 Posts

so.... what should I do?

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#19

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:05 pm
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

Create a PDF file of all the modes on the neck in the key of G or C and upload it here

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#20

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:13 pm
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

No no dont get me wrong its cool - just know that you sounded like you were trying to TEACH everyone - like when a student of Jiu Jitsu or Kung Fu who has some knowledge bypasses the instructor's method and starts showing his classmates what HE thinks is the correct Jiu Jitsu or Kung Fu tehcnique.

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#21

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:23 pm
by daniele • 12 Posts

Message received.I m not trying to teach nothing to no one.I m watching ur video and following ur free lesson cauz U are a real good teacher for me.And I ve always been fine to what I ve learnt till now here.I ll continue to watch videos and shut up my mouth.
Sorry again to anyone.
Oh Mr. Brown just to know ....If I do a vamp using that chords I' m doing a modal progression or not?Just to know if what I ve learned Is right or wrong.They sound quite modal when I practice or I m totally wrong?


Last edited Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:27 pm | Scroll up

#22

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:24 pm
by robmurtha • 94 Posts

To your question about using the modes in music, I would like to give an example using John Coltrane's Impressions a song which is made up of two chords played for 16 bars each dm7 and ebm7 using a dorian mode as the tonal center. Consider that the melody confirms to the dorian scale as it is played over each chord. As the chord changes a new tonal center is established. In order to create a solo simply use the d dorian and eb dorian scales accordingly - this is the basic approach.

This song is really written as a "modal" composition, a lot of shred type music is also written this way so that extended phrases can be played in a single mode. If you have an existing song that has a more traditional chord progression please post it and I can help you figure out what modes might apply, once you know the key that the chord progression is in the modes pretty much follow the diatonic chords if you are using a standard tune.

If you listen to the song, especially when McCoy Tyner plays piano you can hear many alternate chords being played over the underlying dm7, on an advanced level modes can be overlayed to create new sounds so the fact that there is a tonal center established allows the soloist to go "out" into alternate modes and keys of their choice and then eventually come "home" to the tonal center.

You may find that you can go back and forth between the d dorian and eb dorian to produce this effect even while the underlying chord is still the dm7. Also note that Coltrane almost immediately echoes the same phrases in both modes to establish another form of continuity.

I offer this example as one form of modal usage, your own can be as simple or complex as you like, Trane spent alot of time exploring this.

Impressions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CmDq4GKSLw

part 2 - coltrane's solo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JChB1KjX4M&feature=related

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#23

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:06 pm
by robmurtha • 94 Posts

here is another tune - So What by Miles Davis - more legato and long lines, same construction, you can also hear the blues and bebop scales in there with the b5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4TbrgIdm0E


Last edited Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:06 pm | Scroll up

#24

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:59 pm
by Yanming • 4 Posts

I feel bad asking this... How do I make a PDF file? or is there any other way I can write it out for you?

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#25

RE: Modes and how to use them

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:07 pm
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

I like to use a few programs - Adobe Illustrator, Adobe Indesign but the FREE one is SCRIBUS and its available for PC, Mac and Linux as well - you will have to get SCRIBUS and learn it or even OPEN OFFICE DRAW (Comes with OPEN OFFICE) - google both of those and learn how to use either one to create your neck diagrams and you just save it as PDF or export it as a PDF. Get those free programs you will be fine. Learn how to draw with them and make pages.

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