#1

Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:08 am
by Monkey Puzzle • 6 Posts

Hi Guys,

So I've only just found Pebber brown and his awesome videos. I'm just getting started with some of the right hand picking technique videos.

Now I've been playing for more than 10 years but watching these videos I see Pebber suggests angling the pick FORWARD. I've been playing by angling my pick BACKWARDS for the entire time I've been picking (10 years or so, off and on) i.e. the front/neck side of the plectrum goes up). This works for me as I've been using my wrist to pick, but now I try the moving thumb technique I feel it might have more benefits in the long run. My aim right now is to be able to pick faster and more accurately.

I was wondering what people's reasons are for angling the pick either forward or backwards and what benefits have you found in each method? I'm used to angling it Backwards, which like Pebber says, locks up my thumb a lot. Do people think it a good use of my time right now to re-learn my picking technique?

Cheers

Scroll up

#2

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:05 pm
by Farelli • 187 Posts

It's worth it if you feel it will give you better control.

I've been working on scalpel and sarod picking using Pebber's techniques for about two years now. It gives me great control when I'm trying to play individual notes quickly and effortlessly.

But when I'm using other play styles I find myself altering my wrist angle and locking the thumb more to give myself more rigidity and a more full-arm motion. I just noted this over last weekend.

It's a constant exercise to improve technique. I think Pebber would say to do whatever works best for you. But don't ignore his technique if you can't improve using your own.

He'd probably throw in some more f-bombs in his answer though. :D

Scroll up

#3

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:56 pm
by deltadiscos • 310 Posts

You can pretty much pick however you want, and you will get good as long as you put the time in.
Pebber teaches the way he does as he has seen a lot of students have success with it,

Got to say i was stuck for years with terrible picking until i came across pebber transformed my playing.

maybe if you could put up a video of your pick angle, would help.And a link to the pebber video where he demonstrates tilting the pick forward.


You think you practice enough.......YOU DON'T!............PRACTICE MORE! Darryn U.K
One note can say a million words........It can also take a million notes to say one word

Last edited Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:59 pm | Scroll up

#4

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:08 am
by BillyRae • 24 Posts

I too only recently came upon Pebber B's technique. The angular picking I took an early liking to. Seems to soften the stroke without losing velocity or tone and moves you quickly on to the next note or stroke. Might be a little scuffle sound on the wound strings but unless your listening for it you probably won't have anyone pick up on that. Wrist roll is key for me. Keeps me from stubbing my pick on a string and BOINKING a note needlessly.

Suffer up a vid for PB to chew apart just like the rest of us. We ALL suck if only by a matter of degree.

Want to get better, NO PAIN and EMBARRASSMENT, NO GAIN. NOT THAT FINGER MAN!!!!

Scroll up

#5

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:56 am
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

The point is that you take the techniques I show people in the lessons and ADD them to your "arsenal" of tehcniques that you already have. So so many people utterly miss that point and even try to argue about their picking style. Even after I explain it over and over again they think that I am some kind of Army drill sargent instructor them to altogether REPLACE their own picking style and go cold turkey. The scaplel picking was taught to me by two instructors I had back in the 70's - Joe Sandino and Howard Roberts. Roberts had a lot of fame as an LA Studio Musician and Guitar Clinician and he also was a founding member of G.I.T. Kenny Burrell uses scalpel picking as does Scofield, and many others. However, and I will say this for the 3,000th time now - The back angle style is used by George Benson, Carlos Santana, Pat Metheny and an odd version of it is practiced by Steve Morse. Now also - look at Buckethead - I repeatedly told him to not get locked down to any one technique or way of doing a technique - so you can see - some videos he shreds more scalpel style, some videos he shreds with the more back angle style - he was experimenting and trying shit out repeatedly to see what worked - he was not locked in to any style and could do all styles if he wanted to because he practiced all of them. That the point - if you use a back angle style, especially for 10 years, then scalpel is going to feel weird. But most people wont try something until they can make it work - instead they chicken out and go back to what is comfortable for them. Try it for a whole 6 months before you say it doesnt work. I wish more people practiced in the old school way.


Last edited Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:56 am | Scroll up

#6

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:14 am
by Monkey Puzzle • 6 Posts

Awesome, thanks pebber i hear what you're saying. Actually after trying the scalpel picking for a bit longer now, I'm finding i quite like it for different things. Also, like you say its encouraged me to start experimenting with different ways of picking so onwards and upwards, I'm going to keep working at the scalpel picking as i think it has some advantages and I don't think my ability to angle the pick backwards is ever going to go away now!

Thanks for the responses everyone, I appreciate your time and advice.

Scroll up

#7

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:40 am
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

Practice it for ONE YEAR before you decide its too hard.

Scroll up

#8

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:13 pm
by Adam • 157 Posts

If it were easy to undo a "bad" or "improper" technique, then the World would be much more full of insanely good guitar players! Alas, there is no quick fix...no "3 Secrets To Becoming A Master Picker In 1 Week" like we have all seen peppered all over the internet.

That is a SCAM, run by strip-mall guitar "instructors" who are only there to fleece the pockets of generation after generation of aspiring rockers, be-boppers, thrashers, and punks.

From my own experience, it took me at least 6 months of working on my picking to even be able to implement it comfortably (KEY WORD) in a live setting,,,and at least 1 year for me to be able to pick like that without thinking. I'm talking about the scalpel picking.

Sarod picking is something I still work to develop and perfect. I'm able to switch up between the 2 techniques comfortably (there's that KEY WORD, again), but I am always working to improve. Like I always say: There is NO graduation when it comes to learning guitar.

Having said all of this, please keep in mind that Pebber instructs us on methods that have worked for him and many students, but Pebber will be the first to remind students that the best players almost always incorporate a few different picking techniques. Don't hesitate to PUT IN THE WORK and just see what happens a year from now when it comes to your playing!

GREAT POST, and GREAT RESPONSES!!!

Scroll up

#9

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:01 am
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

Yes - I dont claim that there is only ONE way to play and only ONE technique path to follow. So many amazing players have a their own unorthodox technique. Adam knows - I just teach CLASSICAL for the left hand and combined Alternate/Scalpel/Sarod for the right hand along with Hybrid picking. Anyone can do with it what they will - however - IT IS ALWAYS the cheap guys who abandon new ideas right away because its not comfortable. They are the ones who never progress no matter how many "years" they've been playing. Adult students who have been playing for 20 years are always the worst for bad habits and dont ever have the patience to fix anything the right way. They always quit and keep on sucking forever. Instant gratification does have major drawbacks!


Last edited Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:02 am | Scroll up

#10

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:30 am
by Monkey Puzzle • 6 Posts

Yeah - I will stick at it if I'm going to do it. Right now it seems as though there are so many techniques to learn so I'm trying to focus on techniques that will I have an idea of how I will apply it in my music. I'm focusing on the classical left hand (or in my case right hand!) and the scalpel picking, as well as directional picking. The sarod technique really interests me but I'd rather nail one thing at a time, so I can actually use the techniques in my bands and studio work. Maybe in a year or two once i've got the scalpel and directional stuff down I'll focus on the sarod picking.

Thanks for giving your time to write the responses, much appreciated.

Scroll up

#11

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:07 am
by Farelli • 187 Posts

Quote: Adam wrote in post #8
From my own experience, it took me at least 6 months of working on my picking to even be able to implement it comfortably (KEY WORD) in a live setting,,,and at least 1 year for me to be able to pick like that without thinking. I'm talking about the scalpel picking.


In one of the old videos of Allan Holdsworth, he mentions that any time he learns a new technique he'll practice it for something like 18 months before he ever considers including it in a performance.

That's worth paying attention to. If a player as good as Holdsworth, who was already at the top of his game, was still practicing new techniques that way, it is thoroughly unreasonable for any of us to expect to pick something up and be comfortable with it in a month or three.

Scroll up

#12

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:00 pm
by Adam • 157 Posts

,,,and to think, Farelli, that I was simply referring to gigging in bars in/around Chicago with a singer-songwriter, and not about gigging at The Baked Potato out in Studio City, California, where the Who's Who of REAL Guitarists will go to catch (and critique) shows from their peers!

The moment I THINK, "I'm a truly great guitarist" will be the day I stop practicing.

There's no graduation from learning guitar!


Now, getting back to the actual topic: Monkey Puzzle initially posts on 02/24,,,then posts again 3 days later that he's worked on his technique "for a bit longer now..." and goes on to share his thoughts.

I strongly encourage Monkey Puzzle to keep doing what he's doing, and then post a video and share with us a 6-12 MONTHS from now! If he sticks with Pebber, and is true to himself and his practice routine, I can pretty much guarantee that he'll be light years ahead of where he is now.

Having said all of this, how are things going these days, Monkey Puzzle? Hope all is good,,,Share with us, Brother!!!

Scroll up

#13

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:03 am
by Monkey Puzzle • 6 Posts

Thanks Adam, I'm sticking at it! Slowly working my way through the daily practice routine exercises, one at a time. I'm learning one exercise at a time, so I can be sure to learn them properly. There is so much material to cover!

I'm now practicing Picking exercises on each string and on adjacent strings. I'm also interested in sweeping a lot so I adapted the adjacent string exercise to practice sweeping - doing 1 - 8 notes per beat but always sweeping across the strings. I've covered the classical form, spider and ladder exercises for the left hand and I'm doing those daily.

The next few modules is where it gets tricky, there aren't any links in the practice routine PDF or web page for chords or scales modules and finding the videos that go with each exercise isn't easy.

After watching some of the videos of the other guys on the forum I've discovered how to practice chord scales but couldn't find a pebber video on the subject. So I'm doing major chord scales, using triads, then 7th chords and just getting onto learning some 9th chord shapes. I've created a worksheet based on this (Oh, I'm not allowed to post any links, sorry!)(Its some rad guitarist chord worksheet - google it)
And I'm working through it, filling it out as I work through the different chords. Once I'm done with C I'll move on to G... I'm applying the chord memorisation technique as I go.

For my scales I'm starting from scratch, I'm creating maps of the neck as I learn the major scales along each string. Then practicing a 1234-2345-3456-4567 pattern to the metronome. I'll figure out some other patterns soon and practice those too. Again, I plan to work through all the strings in all the keys before moving on to the major pentatonics exercises. I've also added in the diatonic CAGED scales to this module to get those memorised in each key. Again, there are no links to any lessons or videos in the pdf or webpage for the scales module so I'm just picking up bits and pieces from whatever Pebber videos I can find - but the whole thing feels very un-structured and a bit haphazard , the names of the videos don't correspond with the names on the practice routine and I'm have to watch the videos all the way through to figure out which one goes with which bit on the practice routine - as a result I've started to put together my own practice routine with some things like sweeping that webber doesn't teach much.

What do you think of this?

How do you others manage to find the right lessons etc for the things which aren't linked in the practice routine? I'm scouring you tube everyday searching. and putting the pieces of the puzzle into some order I can make sense of. Some lessons cover several things which are on the routine, other lessons cover things which are not on there at all and many don't seem to exist yet? I've also noticed that the PDF and web page practice routines are different so I though it best that I just try to pick up what I can and start putting my own routine together...

Anyway, I'm noticing small improvements when jamming with the bands already, I get the feeling that if I keep this up indefinitely then I'll be flying in a few years :) Of course there is always more to learn and more improvements to be had. I do recording and production for bands too, and actually moving forwards with the guitar once again is also helping my musical work in general.

Scroll up

#14

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:01 pm
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

There are SEVERAL FREE videos on my youtube channel covering scale sequences that are OVER an HOUR long each.

Scroll up

#15

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:17 am
by Monkey Puzzle • 6 Posts

Found them thanks Pebber. I was looking for chord scales, not searching for scale sequences. That what I meant about the names not always matching up... I just hadn't thought to search for that term.

Scroll up

#16

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:34 pm
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

Why dont you become a PAYING student and have all the PDF files and videos that go with them all laid out for you! There is plenty of FREE content available on youtube, and believe me there are PLENTY of FREE PDF files - but we are not in the business of providing FREE lessons, FREE videos, and FREE pdf documents for the entire world, and hiring a STAFF to keep them all organized and having meetings to decide what to name them and uploading them sequentially so the public can all download them all for FREE. Paying students have a lot more access.


Last edited Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:49 pm | Scroll up

#17

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:39 pm
by Adam • 157 Posts

Hi Monkey Puzzle,

For students trying to learn from Pebber's free .PDF's, videos, etc., there can be some work required in terms of finding corresponding videos for each Module or Exercise. I solved that problem by simply watching every video on Pebber's YouTube Channel!

However, those students who sign up with Pebber are sent videos in sequential order -- Stuff that is obviously NOT on YouTube. Stuff that is more in-depth. That's a major reason for becoming a paying student!

In terms of your practice routine, I don't see anything wrong with it,,,as long as you are playing & learning, it's all good!

Scroll up

#18

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:31 am
by Monkey Puzzle • 6 Posts

Pebber, my apologies. I do really appreciate the fact that so much of your material is available for free, and that you are taking the time to respond here without being paid. As a struggling musician paid lessons might have to wait until I can bring in more money! I feel I have a lot to be getting on with in the meantime!

Adam, thanks for the encouragement, I am learning a lot watching Pebbers videos. Hopefully, I'll have watched them all within a year! There is a ton of stuff there, and if I watch too much too quickly I find I' not actually taking it all in.

Thanks again for your responses.

...Now time to practice!

Scroll up

#19

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:52 pm
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

There might be some good news for all you guys who are broke. The entire online video lesson structure is going to be modified this summer so that for $15 you can get ONE 15 min lesson. $25 for TWO 15 minute lessons, $40 for FOUR 15 minute lessons and $60 for SIX 15 minute lessons. The 30 minute lessons are all being revamped. So if you are low on funds you will be still able to subscribe at $15 per month for ONE 15 minute lesson. If you cant afford $15 a month for guitar lessons, then you may want to reconsider your whole method of earning money. You CAN get $15 from aluminum and glass recycling pretty easily though. Its all about motivation.

Scroll up

#20

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:38 pm
by pebberbrown • 878 Posts

Ok its all done. Here are the new lesson rates:

http://www.pbguitarstudio.com/LessonRates.html

Now go ahead and get your fifteen dollars and subscribe!!!

Scroll up

#21

RE: Pick angle forwards or backwards?

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon May 01, 2017 5:01 am
by Farelli • 187 Posts

Nice Pebber. Thanks for the information.

Scroll up


Visitors
0 Members and 3 Guests are online.

We welcome our newest member: jkiger
guest counter
Today were 62 (yesterday 297) guests and 1 (yesterday 2) members online.

Board Statistics
The forum has 809 topics and 7800 posts.

1 member has been online today :
GuitarStyles88