#26

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon May 24, 2010 10:04 am
by uderoche (deleted)
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I did a Google search. Here it is.

Sitting here watching you do some of your faster picking stuff, what I like is that itís not too accurate, and it gets looser the faster you go. Itís still bluesy. It doesnít sound like you locked yourself up in closet with a metronome for ten years.
My dad was a jazz musician, and when I was little he set me up with guitar lessons with a guy named Art Bergman, who taught me picking accuracy by drawing a circle on my pickguard and saying, ďPut your pinky in that circle and donít move it.Ē I donít have pickguards on my signature Les Pauls, and you can see that on this prototype Iím holding [above], two different holes have developed in the finish: one where I rest my pinky, and one where the pick grazes the body. I sort of miss having a pickguard, because I like my hand to be lifted a little bit more when I pick. Hopefully Gibson will make me a custom one that fits my special knob layout. Itís funnyómore and more lately I find myself playing without a pick. If I want to play fast but canít find a pick, I just use the tip of the nail on my index finger.

You know who I actually pick like? John McLaughlin. The crazy thing is that even though I was a huge Mahavishnu freak back when Journey first started, and still am, I never learned to pick from McLaughlin. But I caught up with him before a show recently in San Francisco, and when he started warming up, I noticed he was slicing the strings sideways with the pick, and thatís exactly what Iíve always done [below]. Iíve never played straight on. On stage, I use Dunlop [483 Classic Celluloid] medium picks. Heavy picks feel kind of stumbly to me. But when

Iím warming up, sometimes I use those pointy little Dunlop Eric Johnson [Classic Jazz III] picks. Those are really great to practice with, because they build up your accuracy. When I come back to my normal picks after that, it feels really easy, because the other pick is so hard, itís like playing with a piece of bone or something.

They show a picture of Schon's hand holding the pick upside down where it says (see below)


Last edited Mon May 24, 2010 10:06 am | Scroll up

#27

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon May 24, 2010 2:14 pm
by jimiclaptoncarl • 117 Posts

I don't understand where you are getting the word "upsidedown" from... :P

Neil Schon holds the pick just like any other guitarist, EXCEPT for the fact that his thumb(the joint that is in use when you scapel pick) is bent the oppostite way(opposite how Paul Gilbert holds his pick now). It's not upsidedown...

I'm not familiar how McLaughlin holds it...

Here this picture sort of shows it:



And here's Paul Gilbert, illustrating how he used to hold his pick, this is exactly how Neil holds it, except without the middle finger.. Watch around 1:35-1:37, THAT is the angle Neil Schon uses.. :D


A lack of effort will give you a lack of results. - Pebber Brown

Last edited Mon May 24, 2010 2:14 pm | Scroll up

#28

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon May 24, 2010 2:17 pm
by uderoche (deleted)
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What I mean by upside down is, the pick is not held in the normal direction. I know how Paul Gilbert holds a pick.

Not here to argue. Thanks for the input

Carry on ladies and gents

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#29

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon May 24, 2010 2:23 pm
by jimiclaptoncarl • 117 Posts

Yeah, totally, not arguing, just wanted to clarify...


A lack of effort will give you a lack of results. - Pebber Brown

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#30

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon May 24, 2010 2:23 pm
by jimiclaptoncarl • 117 Posts

A lack of effort will give you a lack of results. - Pebber Brown

Last edited Mon May 24, 2010 2:23 pm | Scroll up

#31

Picking Grips

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue May 25, 2010 12:12 am
by be&say • 12 Posts

There's a number of ways to hold the pick, but the main three are (with a front view explanation):

1. Between the pad of the thumb and the side of the index finger (standard grip): you'd see a fist basically wether closed or more relaxed
2. Between the pad of the thumb and the pad of the index (begginer grip): same as standard grip, too close to notice a difference
3. Between the tip of the thumb and the pad of the index (reversed grip): you'd see an open fist, usually, but no thumb

There's also changing the index for the middle finger / using three fingers (thumb, index and middle) like Van Halen, Steve Morse or Pat Metheny.

McLaughlin's pacific video can fool you because of the angles (the ones from the left side, like 0:16 to 0:32).


http://www.beandsay.com
besay@beandsay.com
beandsayguitar@gmail.com
http://files.homepagemodules.de/b521251/...-3a145b7c-5.jpg

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#32

RE: Picking Grips

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue May 25, 2010 1:59 am
by Adam (deleted)
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There is absolutely NO "right way/wrong way" to hold a pick. Now, granted, there are some methods which are clearly "better" than others , but pretty much anybody can work through the craziest of techniques (i.e. Steve Morse & Marty Friedman).


A LACK OF EFFORT WILL GIVE YOU A LACK OF RESULTS
-Pebber Brown

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#33

RE: Picking Grips

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue May 25, 2010 2:48 am
by be&say • 12 Posts

Absolutely right Adam, that's why I said those were the MAIN three hehehe.

I've seen a bunch of guys who've lost part of their arms play very good and I honestly think it can be done most any way... there's even guys playing with their feet out there (no joke).

So assuming you have no physical malformations, amputated limbs or anything like that, those three are a good place to start if you don't have a preference so far or you feel it's not working for you. They're the tried and true methods... but only a starting point for YOUR technique, and that's a whole different topic as you are the only with your exact body, awareness and experience (maybe for another time)


http://www.beandsay.com
besay@beandsay.com
beandsayguitar@gmail.com

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#34

RE: Picking Grips

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue May 25, 2010 9:00 am
by pebberbrown • 874 Posts

Yeah man Jeff Beck doesnt even use a pick at all anymore - who is anyone to say Jeff Beck is "wrong!" The man who changed the world of guitar in the 1970's - so many guitarists were influenced heavily by Beck - even Eric Johnson, Steve Morse and Scott Henderson attribute Beck as being their no#1 inspiration. He just plays with his fingers now - no pick ever.

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#35

RE: Picking Grips

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue May 25, 2010 9:42 am
by uderoche (deleted)
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Oh man, that blu ray "Jeff Beck Live at Ronnie Scott's" is so unbelievable.

I don't believe much that Rolling Stone prints, but when that blu ray/cd came out, they had a quote that said "Jeff Beck proves he is the greatest living guitar virtuoso."

And they were probably right.

I think the case can be made that he was the greatest of that English rock/blues scene...including Hendrix.


STFU! - Pebber Brown

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#36

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu May 27, 2010 11:09 am
by FRaKh • 320 Posts

The one thing I could never see is John using(blending) scalpel picking for the intricate parts....is it more true he uses his wrist more to get up and over the strings for alt picking and the forearm for the powering of sarod?

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#37

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu May 27, 2010 11:23 am
by pebberbrown • 874 Posts

Absolutely!

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#38

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu May 27, 2010 12:46 pm
by uderoche (deleted)
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Excellent that you brought this up Frakh I was thinking the same thing! I thought, "Well, maybe the movements are so tiny I can't see them." But when I watch McLaughlin, it looks like sarod and alternate and no scalpel.

Thanks for bringing this up Frakh


STFU! - Pebber Brown

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#39

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu May 27, 2010 3:13 pm
by FRaKh • 320 Posts

I am wondering if this is what I am getting at...since my thumb is screwed up? That bouncing up and over the string...rather than the scalpel blend. The scalpel hybrid is really powerful...very exact....and effortless..different in the attack.

The vid you sent to us is excellent....trill exercises/over patterns. I tried to send a note back but didnt go through. Do you want us to start a new thread?

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#40

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu May 27, 2010 6:43 pm
by Adam (deleted)
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In my never-ending pursuit of FraKh-esque Sarod Style,,,I fall somewhere in the Sarod w/Scalpel hybrid technique. I always thought that there was a bit of Scalpel in the Sarod Technique.

I try to focus a tight, slightly circular motion/shake on a single string, and use the Scalpel to reach adjacent/non-adjacent strings.

In any case, I have really improved (I used to be STRICTLY stiff-armed!!!),,BUT I HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO!

I remember, about a year ago, when Blayze posted a vid questioning his own progress,and whether or not to keep at it. Now look at him! He uses a freakin' THUMBPICK,,,AND HE TEARS SHIT UP!

http://www.youtube.com/justreleased09

Whenever I wanna give up, I think of Blayze's vid last year, then I'll watch his new one, and FraKhs',,,,AND Pebbers' bunch,,,and it's back to the woodshed!!!!


A LACK OF EFFORT WILL GIVE YOU A LACK OF RESULTS
-Pebber Brown

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#41

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu May 27, 2010 7:43 pm
by uderoche (deleted)
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That's true as well Adam, I too thought Sarod was a blending of the sarod wrist movement with scalpel. ???

But, it seems McLaughlin doesn't use much scalpel...to me anyway. As I said, maybe he does and the movements are so tiny, you can't tell.

Honestly, I have been mixing them all together lately and combined with all the legato building stuff we've been doing, I've taken my speed picking to a whole other level.

But, I'm still curious as to this "Does McLaughlin use scalpel" question.

I'm sure PB knows.


STFU! - Pebber Brown

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#42

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu May 27, 2010 7:49 pm
by Adam (deleted)
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Hmmm...I was not paying attention to the McLaughlin Question. I'll have to take a peek.


A LACK OF EFFORT WILL GIVE YOU A LACK OF RESULTS
-Pebber Brown

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#43

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu May 27, 2010 8:23 pm
by FRaKh • 320 Posts

I dont think John does the hybrid...Pebber is the one who combined the two....sarod(forearm movement) and the scalpel technique.

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#44

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu May 27, 2010 8:39 pm
by pebberbrown • 874 Posts

MAC doesnt scalpel he stiff thumbs SAROD. I combined them 3 decades ago and thats how I do it. I personally asked McLaughlin about it one time backstage in the 1990's and he said he always thought that it would be better to do it that way but he never worked it out for himself! So I was inspired to keep scalpel with sarod. Real SAROD players all stiff thumb it - mine is a more hybrid modern electric guitar technique based on the original SAROD technique.

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#45

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu May 27, 2010 8:54 pm
by Adam (deleted)
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OK,,,,I feel better (for a hot second, I thought I'd have to re-tool my technique AGAIN)!

My Scalpel Technique is definitely the stronger of the "hybrid" (again, I used to be 100% STIFF-ARMED); just gotta tighten up the Sarod Technique!

There are times when I rest my palm on the bridge, but I have pretty much gotten away from bracing my right hand with my pinky.


A LACK OF EFFORT WILL GIVE YOU A LACK OF RESULTS
-Pebber Brown

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#46

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Thu May 27, 2010 10:05 pm
by uderoche (deleted)
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I find I get the most pure speed from sarod. Alot of times I rest my hand near the bridge and do muting things where I use alternate for more of that vibe. I don't normally mute with sarod mainly cuz I suck at it and I'm better muting with alternate.

My scalpel technique is WEAK. Adam's scalpel blows mine away!


STFU! - Pebber Brown

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#47

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat May 29, 2010 11:10 pm
by Blayze • 32 Posts

I 'try' to use the sarod/scalpel hybrid. When I practice, I work on scalpel alone, sarod alone, the hybrid, and the hybrid with muting....takes a while but I feel like I am making progress. I find the mute is the hardest part...What do you guys think?

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#48

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:16 am
by uderoche (deleted)
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Was teaching some lessons this morning and the music store got some of the DAVA picks in. As I know PB uses them, I bought a few to try out. Really digging them!


-Ursin

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#49

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:02 am
by pebberbrown • 874 Posts

Once you are bitten by a Lycan and you start to turn you can never go back.

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#50

RE: McLaughlin

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:58 pm
by uderoche (deleted)
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The music store I teach at had the original DAVA nylons (which is the aqua blue one) and the DAVA gels (which are made from a different material and are ornage, yellow, and a dark blue.)

I got a few of the gels and I am REALLY digging them. I have also tried the V-picks. A student of mine bought some and gave me a few, but they weren't for me.

The thing is, I like a good "click click click" sound...but I also like a good "flap flap flap" sound.

One of the ways Paul Gilbert gets that good "playing card in the bicycle spokes" sound is he usually uses fairly thin picks (.60mm)

The DAVA seems to do both really well. I like a pick you can get articulate with. Thinner picks are really articulate, but they sometimes bend too much for me and it hurts on the fast stuff.

The V picks do a good "click click click."

Anyway, I am really digging the tone of these.

I THINK PB uses the ones with the black grip.


-Ursin

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