#1

CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:04 pm
by Ray1981 • 279 Posts

Hey guys,

I have one silly question i told you guys that i wrote a lot of them down. Well now i open the Vid from PB 5-pos system complete with the pdf wich we can download from the site. If i compare this with the CAGED system i see that pos 1 is NOT the C form from the CAGED system. So than I opened Music Theory for Guitar vol 1E and there is also told pos 1 is the C form. Starting with the 3rd (scaletone) on the 6th string.

Ok i dont want to be to picky I understand that in the end it doesnt matter how you call a certain position as long you know what youre playing and how to do them. But i thought this would be the same or do i take again the stuff to litterly? If so im sorry for that. I try to make sure that if i write to someone i play e.g. pos 3 that everybody what form i play. Plus that i hope i didnt write all these 80 pages for the garbage bin.

grtz Ray

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#2

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:58 am
by wetduck (deleted)
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Im on my way out to work got 5 mins !!! ill give ya some help later today ray :) if the boys havnt gotten to ya ,before i get home...one quick suggestion start in the key of G to learn the 5 pattern's that way its easy to see all 5 across the fret board :) just to get them under your fingers. there all movable after that :) chat ya up soon buddy !

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#3

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:26 am
by mr. gurgle (deleted)
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I Think Wetduck has it. Are you thinking that the first position must always be the C shape? They are just shapes without numbers and if you number any one of them as 1 then all the other ones will follow from there, so it really does not matter which one is named the first one as long as you know the shapes on the fretboard. You will always move from C shape either to D or to A and so on.

CAGEDCAGEDCAGEDCAGEDCAGEDCAGEDCAGEDCAGED
.............1....1.....1....1....1

As you can see from that CAGED set, I can call any one of them the first one and still the same shapes follow one another. If you start from C then it is "CAGED" but if you start from A then it is "AGEDC" and so forth.

Don't know if you meant something like this, but I'm sure you are not doing something for nothing! Keep up the good work.

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#4

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:22 pm
by NicholasJacquet (deleted)
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Although I am familiar with caged system, I do not find it to particularly helpful (by itself alone in a vacuum, mind you) as the most helpful cerebral framework for fret board intuitiveness after I get to the point where I need to be able to start weaving my fingerings back and fourth between the various partitionary subdivisions it places upon my mental picture of the fretboard. As such, I do not find The caged system alone by itself to be a particularly "liberating" framework for if and when I want to improvise without my headspace becoming cluttered by fretboard recollections of fret board diagrams and barre chord fretboard forms that most of the time are irrelevant pieces of information to me during those improvisatory moments where an idea has poped into my noggin and I need to be able to immediately right then and there hammer that sucker out only a split second latter. My main point is that positional playing that can become a bit of a hindrance at a certain point to what sounds ones inner musical source is able to wrap itself around or organically discover on its own


Modoric Aknowledgements:

Play Guitar better than Fred Durst?---Check

Play Guitar better than Lil' Wayne?---Check

Play Guitar better than Franz Listz?---
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#5

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:49 pm
by deltadiscos • 312 Posts

the pos 1 etc relates to the scaletone on the six string.
seems like alot of confusion here on what the caged system is
it is just a way of sorting the scales around root notes that also form the basis for chords. this is where the caged name comes from.
caged has nothing to do with the notes you will play it is just positions on the neck.
sorry if confusing hope it helps .


You think you practice enough.......YOU DON'T!............PRACTICE MORE! Darryn U.K
One note can say a million words........It can also take a million notes to say one word
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#6

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:47 pm
by NicholasJacquet (deleted)
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cagedguitarsystem.com/
this is what I was refering to...I only find scale shapes relevant to myself if I can apply them by way of either practicing or playing...obviously its good to have made oneself mentally aquainted with the concepts of CAGED, but as far as being able to play through scales in a manner that is consistent with what I want to be able to do, it does not seem to be very insightful; again thats just me (-: Everyone has their own aspirations and their own notions about how they are best to go about realizing those aspirations.


Modoric Aknowledgements:

Play Guitar better than Fred Durst?---Check

Play Guitar better than Lil' Wayne?---Check

Play Guitar better than Franz Listz?---
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#7

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:19 pm
by Ray1981 • 279 Posts

Thanks guys! Well i was thinking that with the CAGED system pos 1 would be the scale pattern that lays out the C form chord. Ofcourse everything is movable so if I would play in D than the pattern that shows the D chord in the regular C form would be pos 1. Now I understand that this is wrong this is pos 3 because it starts with the 3rd tone on the scale on the 6th string.

This last thing is more logic for the brain (at least my brains). If we play in position 1 it means we play from the tonic all the tones of the scale or play in pos 5 we play all those scale tones starting from the 5th tone of that scale on the 6th string. This is also helpfull for learning mode i guess cause this is as well related to to shifting the scale tones.

So pos 3 would be also the Phrygian scale by this you know 2 things at one time, right?

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#8

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:45 pm
by wetduck (deleted)
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here ya go buddy :) don't mind the coffee stain ,i've had this along time lol lol this shows it clearly :)
photo 1.JPG - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)photo 2.JPG - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)
sorry to use my own note's quack quack. start with scale 1 on the root=starting note :) 6th string on the G note !after that!!!!Notice how scale 2 starts where scale 1 left off :)....the same with 3 ,4 and 5 :) quack quack !they all chain together.....wont take long to get them under your fingers and memorized :) a week..... ..wont take long either to start sounding musical.... even tonight :) start with scale 1 learn it first... even just play with it for a few days...Jam jam jam..play over a simple jam track....G to C to D basic, basic chords!!! first 4 frets :) campfire singalong chords !!! I promise you'll be making fun...(good to your ears) music 5 mins after you start playing to that progression... a easy 1,4,5 :) g,c to d scale 1 will come to life !!!
Do not play over a 1 chord progression yet !!! Reason... you'll hear melody just happen... if the chord changes....and your ears and fingers will just take over..... if you play over a 1 chord(vamp) progression.... its 1000 times harder!!! to learn to phrase the sound.....and in my humble opinion...only intermedate and advanced guitar players can properly do that !!! and sound great.... because ,they already know this stuff well enough !!! and now can force a melody and direction...on you. a few years away :) and a deeper understanding !!! not hard :) just time on the fret board...and your hours will soon add up...

quack quack ! hope this changes your world !!!

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#9

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:03 pm
by Ray1981 • 279 Posts

Thanks for all your efford Wetduck but this I have written down all by myself. I know several positions allready :). I was placing just a question about how the logic works of the CAGED system related to positions. As i Wrote I was thinking the C form is always position 1 but this is NOT true as mentioned before. The C form stands for pos 3 because it starts at the 3rd tone of the scale on the 6 string.
Further i do understand the CAGED system.

But again thank you very much for you efford i appreciate the help!!

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#10

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:09 pm
by wetduck (deleted)
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Perfecccccct :) great :) Quack quack !

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#11

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:29 am
by Chris • 20 Posts

... thanks for this.... I am only starting out with the CAGED system and your post will really help me understand what the system leads on to..

Question.... (although I think I know what the answer will be) should I learn the CAGED system OR concentrate on the 14 position? as the 14 incorporates the CAGED system would I be best to cut out the middle man?

Can you give any more basic ways to play the shapes over chord progressions.... I like learning scales, don't get me wrong but I also like to make music... even if I suck... thank's duck


... jack of all trades, master of none!
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#12

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:46 am
by Ray1981 • 279 Posts

Pebber advises in one of his videos totake about 6 months onthe CAGED system (correct me if im wrong). Even the CAGED is only 5 position it is quite some work to get all scales (Major, Minors, pentatonics) arpeggios and chords. Than go to 7 position and after start with 14 position. Take it slowly but thoroughly apply increntimentalism. This is Pebber and many other great teachers advise from here.

I hope this will help you a bit though im not a teacher and learning the CAGED system by myself as well

grtz Ray

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#13

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:51 am
by Chris • 20 Posts

cheers ray....

I dunno if i am looking for a short cut or just trying maximise my learning time.... i'll keep plugging away with the 5 positions for now.


..... I should really be practising...
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#14

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:52 am
by Ray1981 • 279 Posts

Chris,

IMO short cuts will not work if you really have the desire to nail it down correctly. Besides of that the 14 position system includes the CAGED system so youre started more or less with the 14 position system. But going this way is more structered and by doing it like that youre using your practice time efficient. But this is my opinion and understanding.

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#15

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:39 am
by Ray1981 • 279 Posts

Hi All,

My attempt of the CAGED system in Major scales and Arpeggios @ 65 BPM. I know i went sometimes wrong in timing sorry for that I have the pattern in my head but I need to play them more.
I think when going thu the system everyday a coulpe of time it will get more familiar for my finger and therefor gets better.

Let me know what you guys think.



Grtz Ray

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#16

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:06 am
by Ray1981 • 279 Posts

Hi Folks,

After almost a month practicing on the CAGED system I made a new video where I play GMaj in all 5 positions. This time i didnt use a metronome while playing. There are still some fingerings which are a bit difficult but it goes every week more easy.



Grtz Ray

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#17

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:17 am
by Farelli • 189 Posts

You're doing well here also, Ray.

Back to the older questions in the thread, you quickly learned the things that people don't like about the CAGED system. First, it should really be called the EDCAG system because those are the chord shapes associated with the 5 positions, but then it wouldn't conveniently spell an English word. :D

The second problem it has, which I learned myself and both Tom Hess and Tomasso Zillio hit on it, is that it cements box shapes in our minds and unless we learn additional systems we get stuck (caged) in those boxes and therefore sound mechanical when improvising. They used it as an argument in favor of never learning CAGED to begin with.

However, I agree with Pebber on this. CAGED is still a critical thing for a beginning guitarist to learn because it is an easy way to introduce the structure of the neck and the basic chord shapes. It has only 5 positions, so anyone can learn it in a relatively short time. Finally, it is included either directly or indirectly in all the other systems, making them easier to learn.

A second reason CAGED is so valuable just occurred to me. Anyone who learns it very quickly realizes that they have much more to learn. CAGED is really like Fretboard 101 or something. You need to go to higher-level systems to develop mastery of the neck.

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#18

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:31 am
by Ray1981 • 279 Posts

Hi Farelli,

Great you mentioned EDCAG according my understanding i would call it like that, though i fully agree and understand why people call it simply CAGED so that makes sense.

Im still learning the CAGED at the moment, Iknow now how to play Major, Mel Minor, Harm Minor scales and Apreggios. So im about to start with Natural Minor and than i go thru the pentatonic scales. Only when i fully nailed those i will go to the others systems.
Yes on thing i really saw is there are so many ways to play the scales and this i saw goow when i staarted to write all majors scales in all positions down on a paper (yes i have done that and have about 190 pages with all the posible ways of playing them). I can tell by seeing how much you can learn on the guitar i only want to study more the guitar. So the studying has worked as a katelyser, very cool!

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#19

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:08 am
by Ray1981 • 279 Posts

Hey All,

I made a new video the next scale in the CAGED system so this time the Melodic Minor all 5 positions scales and arpeggios. Harmonic Minor is soon naiiled down as well so i will start soon with learning the last minor.

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#20

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:07 am
by Ray1981 • 279 Posts

Hey All,

I tried to play thru the Mel Minor while playing the Scale Chords as well. I hope nobodies ears get hurt :)



grtz Ray


Last edited Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:08 am | Scroll up

#21

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:23 am
by Farelli • 189 Posts

That works, man. Very musical.

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#22

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:51 am
by pebberbrown • 901 Posts

Ray that was pretty cool. Great starting point!

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#23

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:09 am
by Ivan • 45 Posts

nice work ray!


Music=Life
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#24

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:50 am
by Ray1981 • 279 Posts

Thanks guys!!!!

Sorry for the late response but i was without internet for several days so could not respond to or read any other thread on the forum. Im happy to be back :)

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#25

RE: CAGED system

in PB Guitarstudio FORUMS Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:43 pm
by Ray1981 • 279 Posts

Hey guys

Anybody see this diagram once? Its a nice map of the CAGED-Major i think.

CAGED diagram.png - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)

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