There are some great videos on this that Pebber has made available for free, it could help you listening to some classic rock and blues to get an ear for the scale.
BB King can milk that scale because his phrasing and vibrato is so spectacular while Yngwie is one of my favourites I don't think that BB King would want to play like Yngwie with all due respect to Yngwie.
I've been practicing both for a while and I find econemy picking easier but it has its disadvantages, in my experience it's great for uneven note groups such as 3nps but not very good for the even note groups 2nps,4nps etc and as Pebber said even Gambale who is the best in the world at it has to switch it up... For my preference I use scalpel picking for econemy picking, it makes it so much easier because it's sort of a rake where you're using the scalpel picking to get each note set.
Just my thoughts, as Pebber said in a video he's like a chef and we choose what we do with the knowledge he gives us on the buffet table. I'm still trying to sarod but haven't achieved that flutter so at the moment my picking technique for playing (not practicing) is a scalpel/wrist hybrid. That said I've been practicing alternate picking for a while with the scalpel and wrist and while it's coming along alright I don't find it as easy to execute as hybrid picking but then the remedy for that is to get off the internet and PRACTICE!
That's fair, I'm just expressing an opinion and wasn't arguing with you the purpous of what I said was trying to be helpful to Cliff with his muting issues because he's obviously had alot of conflicting opinions to deal with.
Everyone has their own ways of doing things, you're right about the fretting finger being released but it doesn't solve the issue of the natural string vibration that is inaudible without distortion from occuring and I do agree with your point about anchoring slowing you down but every technique has its uses, if you've ever had an issue with a feedbacking speaker and you don't have any concept of muting technique then I'd imagine you'd really have to think on your feet... I don't understand how you'd cope with that.
I do appologise if it seemed as if I was trying to discredit what you're saying in any way, I do see your points and I do feel like they were made with the best intentions however there are other sides to the coin that Cliff might want to take into consideration also the fact that hair metal contains many riffs with muting in the first place in my opinion it'd be a bad idea for him to be switching his technique up that often during a song...
Once again just my thoughts, thanks for your input guys.
Also: On the sweep picking front I don't think you understood what I was saying, I'm not saying to hold the shape down and then sweep it but it's once again going back to the natural vibration that happens when playing with distortion, if you just release the note with no muting even if you do it to slowly dampen the string (which is what I believe you were saying) you'd need to have good muting technique to stop the notes from ringing especially when doing it in an area with harmonic nodes such as the 12th fret, it's important for 3+ string sweeps especially, I'm no master at it yet but it's what everyone seems to do and say for the technique.
Well, if the genre you're after is hair metal then with distortion on you'd need to have a good muting technique because strings naturally will ring with the distortion necessary to play the genre the distortion would mean that if you're not muting the string directly below or above then you'll hear the natural vibration happening.
Muting technique isn't a waste of time, especially not when you get into the sweep arpeggio stuff where it's an absolute requirement.
I've seen Pebber mute strings with his sarod technique and don't believe it caused him to slow down although I don't want to speak for Pebber but it's just from what I've observed of his playing.
Also: While I do agree that practicing with distortion on all of the time isn't a good idea because you can't hear accenting or the real notes that you're playing as easily, it can be beneficial when practicing for unwanted string noise... If you can't handle distortion in the practice room then you can't handle distortion on stage or at band rehersals etc.
The Dava picks that I have change thickness depending on where you hold the pick, the lines on the pick should decide that if you've got the same ones as me, if you hold it right at the bottom line then it will be thicker, hope this helps.
I've used the Jazz III's, the Jazz III ultex and all of the sizes of big stubbies... I used the Jazz III Ultex for the longest time until switching to dava yellows and reds about a year ago, I find they are the best for me because they have good grip and as has been said they just don't seem to wear down anyway near as quickly as the Jazz III's. I also like how I can use it for strumming on an acoustic guitar without having that horrible sharp noise heavy picks usually produce.
Thanks once again for all the help and advice, I realise that I've said thanks in every post but you guys have been so helpful heh, I've been working on it and have seen a slight improvement of the motion with thanks to Frakhs advice. Using the pen trick in the video I realised that I was stiffening up my forearm too much without realising it and worked on just relaxing the forearm. I just need more time and practice as Pebber said there is no instant gratification on advance techniques.
Also well spotted Debilius, I've been doing pure scalpel picking for over a year now and got the motion down first and went on to try and find my angle and then I focused on making the upstrokes and downstrokes match along with muting. With Sarod I've found that sometimes I'll strike up too hard or dig the pick too deep which messes up my timing and articulation, it needs loads of work, although I'm trying not to pay too much attention to articulation or any form of muting until I have the actual motion down first, but if you think I should practice it all at once I'd be open to give it a try.
Oh, also just to update I've decided to focus on pure sarod for a couple of years or however long it takes and then add the hybrid when I feel that I have the pure motion with no scalpel picking locked in properly.
Hey, thanks for your criticism I have been working on your advice for around 6 hours now (not enough time really, but I'm using less scalpel now) and hope I've made some progress in the right direction as far as the motion is concerned. I realise that this technique will take loads of work but I feel the effort will pay off big time, especially after seeing your old sarod video to help get an indication of the balance required. I feel like I've been flooding up this thread with my sarod attempts, sorry for that guys.
I decided to over exadurate what I believe to be the sarod movement slowly and then build up a bit so you could see what's going on, I hope this new angle will help too I think it shows more of my forearm movement and more of the thumb so hopefully you can see clearer than before despite the awful lighting. Any advice would be appreciated and I'd like to thank you for taking time out of your day to help me with my technique.
Hey, thanks for the reply and I'm sorry about the camera angle... I've done a new one however it has to be on electric guitar as it's 2:30am here in England! Hope this is a better one thanks.
Hey guys, I'm new to the forums and new to the sarod/hybrid technique. I was wondering if I anyone could tell me if I'm on the right path or not with the motion and maybe give me some constructive criticism. I'm currently only working on the Right Hand module for around 4-5 hours a day and then the rest is brushing up on theory as I have injured my wrist (You can probably see the wrist supports on my left hand for like one frame of the video haha).
I found the motion very weird at first but I've got used to it now and need to work on accuracy and switching strings for a while, I hope the camera angle is okay because it was kinda hard to hold it up there.
Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:29 am
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