Just played around with that PDF after work for a bit. I enjoyed that. Please share more!?!? Also, while you didn't appear to have any trouble at all with the stretch in measure 6, my hands just keep wanting to stay in position 14 to grab the C-B-C by skipping to the G-string.

Out of curiosity, what's your goal speed with scalpal for this passage and how far away are you from your stiff-arm speed? I dug up an orchestral version and it was around 120. From the way you phrased your practice range it seemed you want to go much faster.

Hey there; here is an updated transcription that should follow the key signature more accurately. Sorry about not paying attention to the enharmonic spelling, this should correct it. Hopefully everyone enjoys it, and extra hopefully I didn't make any errors!


I use a relatively new notation editor called 'progression'. It came with my Fishman Triple Play Bundle, and I like it a lot. I have Guitar Pro, G7 and Finale, but Progression is my favourite so far. Again, sorry for my laziness, but I literally just played this sucker, and my midi pickup entered it in, right down to the fingering. Since it's midi, it doesn't follow a set key signature, just hits the notes; currently it defaults as flats. I can't complain, it's quick and dirty!

My speed objective is, yes much higher than 120 BPM. I can play it my 'old way' at about 132 so that is where my benchmark is. I've been playing this little excerpt for years so it was obvious to me to use this as a 'transition' piece to get my right hand on speake=ing terms with the left... Plus in regards to 'reprogramming', this piece is short, I already know it, it's fun to play, and it offers a lot of 'ups and downs' (challenges) to expose weaknesses in my playing.

lol Uder, yeah my left hand needs some work too, I'll get to it shortly. It's something I've been aware of for years and just never bothered to do anything about, because I was able to play whatever I wanted despite. Of course, if I can fix these things maybe I can surprise myself... hahaha Okay, now I gotta go practice.

Quote: dlraben wrote in post #101

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Just played around with that PDF after work for a bit. I enjoyed that. Please share more!?!? Also, while you didn't appear to have any trouble at all with the stretch in measure 6, my hands just keep wanting to stay in position 14 to grab the C-B-C by skipping to the G-string.

Out of curiosity, what's your goal speed with scalpal for this passage and how far away are you from your stiff-arm speed? I dug up an orchestral version and it was around 120. From the way you phrased your practice range it seemed you want to go much faster.

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I have been doing these module 1 exercises everyday. I am doing a late night practice session today and I'd like to share something that I discovered for myself. My picking hand was hurting a lot and I took all day rest yesterday, no practice. I watched all of my older videos and I realized that I have changed my picking technique many times. Pick motion and also the way my hand moves while changing the strings. My picking hand was hurting a lot because I was applying to much pressure on the guitar body with my hand. I was also moving my wrists extremely while moving across the strings which caused wrist pain.

Today I practiced using minimum amount of wrist motion. I combined scalpel motion with wrist motion and I think I feel better about it. Here's a video of me doing some scalpel plus wrist picking at 190 notes per second and 3 notes per beat. Please comment and let me know what you guys think.

Sounds great! You're right hand motion looks effortless.

Thank you much. I am learning to play crazy train by Ozzy and Randy and I wanted to see how Randy was playing his guitar and to my surprise I found this video where he is doing some kind of scalpel picking starting at 4:40

Randy is awesome. One of my early heroes, he had a penchant for writing really interesting music and at the same time had his own sound, really cool player. Easily my favourite Ozzy guitarist. I really loved how early guys like him, EVH, Lynch, DiMeola, Yngwie, McLaughlin, Hendrix, Page, Morse, Holdsworth etc had such recognizable sounds, and interesting music.

Sorry I haven't posted lately, but I've been pretty busy of late; a few months in the life of a working musician whattaya do? I have spent a lot of time really woodshedding, though. Thanks to Tom for sending me a few clips to lead me to a bit of a self revelation of sorts about my technique! (I wish more people here would post songs and jams. Might be fun to see where some collaborations might lead!)

I tried every possible way to really get Scalpel picking 'up' and relaxed. I decided to perhaps do less scalpel work, and try wrist picking a la Paul Gilbert; whattaya know the relaxed technique I was looking for, and steady pain-free progress. Now, that's not to say that scalpel is useless, I actually use it to help support my articulations so it's definitely a useful technique in my arsenal. I also haven't given up on scalpel, really I just decided to 'give it more time' and develop something else that I could use 'right now', and develop scalpel in the background. There's just so much other stuff I need to practice in a day that I can't sacrifice in order to train Scalpel alone. Sarod is interesting, but it will have to wait. Possibly part of the problem is 35 years of playing a certain way, and now trying to develop a new comfort with something quite different. There are moments where I use 'only' scalpel, so it will come. Just gotta think more 'long term' I think. lol And I actually got it pretty fast, but it would hurt a lot in the 'ole thumb, and worst of all, I was not happy with the tone.

On the bright side, wrist/scalpel hybrid seems to really work for me. I'll post some video soon. I've been able to really, really boost the speed limits, and since my interest tonally is in 'overdriven' type tones, it's nice to be able to deliver the speed when it's needed and still have the notes 'pop'. Probably increased speed from my old arm tech by a good 20-30%. Nice and relaxed, too usually. Sometimes the 'arm' technique comes in, (force of habit I guess - breaking it slowly, but tough when you've hardwired yourself to do something...)

Negatives? Well I seem to be addicted to sharp picks again, a la Jazz III's. I was hoping to get away from them, but for what I want to do they really do sound best and make life a bit easier. I practice every now and then with a stylus, and that has helped with some positioning, but honestly the toughest thing has been figuring out my muting. Damn right hand is a lazy muter, especially on the higher strings.

Okay, some video a bit later on today. Sorry for the long post!

Oh, and Diego; that was a pretty wicked demonstration of technique. Crazy!

When you pick sarod style every note you pick "pops", Its stupidly fast, and its really as close to effortless as picking gets...I put it to you this way scott...I myself had to take what I consider to be a major leap of faith to start back at square 1 with the right hand and put everything else aside in order to figure out sarod picking...I am glad that I got that part of it in and dealt with while I am young and have virtually no responsibilities to get in the way...Since music is already on your plate as a profession...I think that taking the steps that Sarod requires in order to REALLY get it to work is going to require that you take a leap of considerably more faith than I had to...because for a decent period of time I had to take what was seemingly an enormous step backwards with regard to right hand technique...during the first 7-8 months of working on sarod...I basically had to make peace with the fact that my right hand as a source of picking strokes was pretty much "out of the game" for the time being...And that was hard to accept....But turn the clocks forward 8 months and once it got back into the game it had something it didnt before...and now that I have the benefit of hindsight I only wish I had had the courage to take this step sooner than I had. Above all else, it required me to stop heading any regard for what others thought of me when they saw how I was using my practice time...A couple of buddies of mine who work at guitar center told me recently that they really did think I had gone crazy...I knew that for a short while that people who saw me practicing (for instance the guys over at guitar center) would probably think of me in a much lesser way as a musician when they saw me trying to do something that they did not (and still Cannot) understand...Now I can pick 2-3 times as fast as any of them...

Scott, nice update and I'm interested in seeing new videos from you. You are a clearly one of the more advanced contributors to this forum, at least in my opinion, and therefore we can learn from you. Most of us, including myself, aren't there yet. Some of us know this, and some of us don't.

Seconded - I agree with every word. And it's always great to see a Scottulus vid :).

Hehehe all Sarod knockin arm-chair quarter backs can check this shit out!

I'm not sure, but I think Nick just called me an Armchair quarterback? Ahhh well, whatever.

To clarify, I don't knock Sarod, I think it's awesome when Pebber or someone good does it. Personally, I just haven't grasped it just yet, and I don't know how to do it. I'm happy to work on what I DO understand and get myself to the point of being able to learn it. I'll get it. When I do, look out... In the meantime, I gotta get my wrist and grip under control.

Anyways, here's that short video I promised, sorry about the roughness. Is what it is...

In the first part of the vid I'm playing using my arm (not from lack of trying, it just is that way for me), and it takes pretty much an entire run-through of a couple of strings to relax to the point of where I can let my wrist take control, rhythm is a bit out up to the G string, I'm still fighting with my grip on the pick, too! My Arm still plays a big part in there, but it's more wrist than I used to (It used to be all arm, no wrist), and my thumb actually accents/ pushes the pick a bit; it's stuff I never used to do before so it's going to take a bit of time to get the articulations to sound good. Anyways, the focus of the video was to just show where I'm at, not trying to impress anyone...

The interesting thing is that I decided to take a few days off picking practice, just to see how brutal it would be just jumping onto a guitar and seeing what happens; and indeed, there is definitely moments of 'a bit ugly' while I figure the click out (Not sure what the tempo is at, I just turned on the metronome from where it was last... Felt a bit fast for me, actually maybe 176 or 184 BPM) And thanks in advance guys, for checking it out. Definitely not perfect, but a decent representation of 1-2-3-4. (And yeah, I know all my scales and arpeggios like that also. 1-2-3-4 just seemed like a good base for all to discuss...)

Here's my 2 main things I'm working on in regards to picking;

1) Relaxation while playing quickly. 35 or so years of playing a certain way forms habits, my picking practice routine now focuses on relaxing a lot. I used to be way more tense lol but a few days ago I was a bit faster, more in sync rhythmically, and 'wrist isolated'. Still, I'm happy that raw speed is intact, and basic rhythmic control comes back very quickly. Having that without spending hours everyday toiling with a metronome is important to me; I got songs and stuff to learn!

2) I HAVE to find a pick that will work for me. I'm trying some styluses, Jazz III's and have some V picks and Stealths on order... I even used just a finger for a while.



Anyways, more to come. I actually got that Bach Orchestral Suite quite a bit quicker also... I'll post it as time permits.

Nice, Scott, it's good to hear experienced players also go through that long "warming up"-period after a break. It took me something like 4-5 hours yesterday, and in my case, I think it's mostly about how much of the pick that hits the string. I'd like as little as possible, but getting there and at the same time getting the brain to work out the angle to keep the pick from tilting (not the pick angle) in less than optimal ways seems to take hours and hours on end. Which sort of creates this manic behavior with "can't stop", "no rest", "must ... keep ... picking".

When I try to tremolo as fast as I can muster up on an ordinary day, I'll use as much arm as as you do. (Not sure I'd call that "much", just saying.) I feel like I'm using the wrist and could swear I'm using the write, but whenever I've looked in a mirror, it would appear I'm using the arm. When I strike some slow chords, it's very relaxed with space opening up between the fingers. Fast chords, like chugging with the occasional powerchord will tighten up the arm and fist again. I know it all comes down to how much of the pick hits (i.e. how much resistance to expect from the string) and what the angle is from top to bottom of the pick -- I'm not so concerned about pick angles anymore.

I also had an epiphany when I was drunk at a show recently and watched a skinny guitar play some shit. Due to his chosen attire, I saw his small forearms. This has lead to me at times lift my forearm just slightly off the guitar-body instead of resting it there because resting it too much will lead to my forearm muscles creating a "bumpy ride" when I pick. I think this is also part of the reason why I have a better tremolo with the guitar in my lap -- no forearm-contact at all. The guitar has flat sides or whatever it's called so the edges sort of dig into the forearm deep when I sit and play with it strapped, but I think I'm gradually starting to subconsciously minimize the forearm-contact.

Anyhoo, off on a tangent there ...

cool video scott!

I had the same problem Scott. Always stiff arm picking from the elbow. Pebber helped me fix it but it does take a long time. Like you, I had to re-program my muscle memory. I was able to do it through brute force perseverance and dedication...and I had the time. Some people can't re-program themselves or they don't have the time.

A lot of rock guitar players pick from the elbow and they are very fast and it's fine. Rusty Cooley for instance.

But if you watch this video, the way Di Meola is comping and the fluidity of his solo lines...that type of rolling...slow-faster-a little faster-A LITTLE FASTER-LIGHT SPEED.....you cannot make that SOUND very good with stiff arm picking. So, it's more of a tone thing to me. And the comping most definitely cannot be done at all with stiff arm picking.

Scott, as far as picks go, use what is most comfortable and gives you the best tone.

Picks are very different and can feel different and sound different...more highs, more mids, smoother, aggressive, etc.

I used Fender mediums for many years and then switched to a thicker pick like the Dunlop 1.5mm

When I started lessons with Pebber I tried out a bunch of different picks and built up quite a collection of different plectrums.

I eventually settled on Dava Jazz picks. As I began re-defining my technique and practicing scalpel and sarod and wrist picking, I found the Dava Jazz (delrin...the red ones for me...for those interested Pebber uses the yellow nylon regular sized Dava picks) gave me the best sound on electric and acoustic (I hate switching picks for acoustic playing) they felt the best, and they were the easiest for me to play with.

So, I started these massive 8hr a day practice sessions with these picks and now years later, I can't use anything else! I practice guitar a lot and these picks were the most comfortable over those LONG stretches of time. Other picks tend to hurt my pick hand fingers or give me a cramp after 3 or 4 hours.

For faster things I play with the pick at a pretty severe angle and the jazz picks work the best for that to me. But the Dunlop Jazz III picks always seemed kind of dead sounding. The Dava Jazz sound more toneful and lively to my ears.

But, in the end, I have found that a plectrum doesn't affect your playing as far as making you faster, more articulate, or a better player. No piece of gear will but, being comfortable and relaxed (and practicing a lot!) will.

Cheers

-u

The latest thing I have been working on when it comes to picking is relying more on my wrist. That came from watching players like Andy Wood who are all about picking completely from the wrist even for deadly fast runs and it is a beautiful thing to see executed.

Video (The playing specifically @5:41 is mesmerizing)

If I see another fucking guitar player with a Suhr guitar and an AxeFX I'm gonna throw up. Those guys can toss off. They all sound the same.

But the playing was fluid Joel

Hahahahahaha!! You're so right about the AxeFX! At least we can be grateful Andy Wood isn't doing the dreaful djentdjentdjentdjentdjent bullshit a good chunk of AxeFx guys are doing. It also looks like the Suhr craze has been dying down a great deal since Guthrie moved over to Charvel.

EDIT: This is an old video too, Andy has been using a signature tube amp since his AxeFx days.

True. I bet Suhr was sick knowing sales would drop off when Govan left. His Charvel looks exactly like the Suhr. So, it was probably about money. Suhr was probably giving him 5 guitars free a year. Charvel said we'll give you 10 free guitars a year plus we'll give you $X money a year, plus we'll invest more in ads, clinics, etc etc that we want you to play a lead role in. So he said ok.

I always heard Petrucci left Ibanez and went to MusicMan because Ibanez wouldn't build him a signature 7 string cuz it would cut into sales of The Universe which is Vai's signature 7 string...which would cut into Vai's wallet...which would probably piss him off.

Usually when guys jump companies it's over stuff like that.

Anyway, I bet Suhr was dissapointed. But, they can't offer what Charvel can offer from a $ and advertising standpoint.

Guthrie really doesn't give a fuck about the guitar. Any custom shop luthier can make you a guitar any way you like it.

Thanks for the replies, guys and of course for checking out the video.

Yeah it takes me longer to relax than it does for me to warm up using a stiff arm approach. Its funny, but I spend more time when I practice getting it to be "wrist only" than I do in working on any note sequence in particular. I think my biggest problem is dealing with the tone I get, and how I want to articulate it.

As far as picks, while I wait for some Gravitypicks I will use the DAVA ones. They are yellow and kind of pointed. Jazz 3's and the like kind of make a chirping noise, which means I'm getting a bit of my thumb brushing the string so I need more clearance. The only thing that will help me get better at picking is more time, and yeah I realize that. I would like to develop Sarod but my style of playing requires a mute, not sure how to sarod and mute... One day, lol


Now tone... my favourite guitar is a signature series Yngwie Malmsteen Stratocaster. I like it plugged into a loud tube amp with a kind of overdrive growl. I am fond of Marshalls, but I use a TC Electronics GSystem with an MXR "Super Badass Distortion" and a " EHX Lil Big muff Pi" and also an "EHX Hog 2". I have an AxeFx(Ultra and a 2) and every generation of the Line6 stuff and I always ditch it and use a microphone on my amp.

Monstrous picking! Loved the ending, too :).

On the subject of the Dava delrin picks, I've noticed the points seem to wear quite quickly. I ordered a bunch, and used the first out of the pack for a while until I lost it. When I took the next out of the pack, I immediately noticed a change in tone. I found the old one and was able to compare the two.

I buy i the mixed bag of dava picks Cliff Now using the orange ones (gel)
Try the yellows(nylon) they wont fade away..